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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

Author
Inflamed knees and coffee (!)
mikllaw
1-Apr-2015
5:19:10 PM
I did something to my knee about 40 years ago and it seems to get tweeked every few years, lately it's been sore (and the other one) for months. 2 years back it had been sore for 4 months (went to physio, no joy), after trying all sorts of things I don't believe in (glucosamine) and things I don't believe I should use (iboprofin), I happened to give up tea and coffee. Pain free (but slightly weak) in 3 days.

I hurt it again 9 weeks ago and it gave me grief until I stopped the sociable brown liquid again, fine 4 days later. The reduction in swelling is significant and occurs quickly, the knee isn't hot to touch, and I can climb stairs with both legs now.

Can anyone throw any light on this?
Fiona
1-Apr-2015
6:20:20 PM
Several possibilities:

1. Coffee and tea contain theophylline and caffeine, both of which can act as adenosine receptor antagonists. Adenosine is a mediator of anti-inflammatory processes in the body, and thus high intake of caffeine may reduce adenosine levels. Conversely, removing caffeine may increase adenosine levels, and increase it's anti-inflammatory effect.

2. Caffeine increases blood cortisol levels, with resulting reduction in bone formation.

Evidence is erratic in the literature

Research also indicates potential anti-inflammatory effects of caffeine with cardiovasular disease and liver disease, with improvement in health.

So coffee is both good and bad, depending on your issue.

As a dietitian, what I would be asking is what are your drinking instead of tea/coffee? The replacement fluid you are having might be making a big difference in the healing process.
mikllaw
1-Apr-2015
7:07:32 PM
replacing coffee with water, I hope it doesn't etch my nose off or something.

shortman
1-Apr-2015
7:26:38 PM
On 1/04/2015 mikllaw wrote:
>replacing coffee with water, I hope it doesn't etch my nose off or something.
>
Bingo.

shortman
1-Apr-2015
7:30:20 PM
What happened to ya post Cliff?
Fiona
1-Apr-2015
7:33:28 PM
Replacement of tea or coffee with water shouldn't have a marked effect on inflammation processes.

This has my curiosity up. I'll do some research.

shortman
1-Apr-2015
8:42:35 PM
On 1/04/2015 Fiona wrote:
>Replacement of tea or coffee with water shouldn't have a marked effect
>on inflammation processes.

It would however have a whole lot of health benifits in general. How many cups have been replaced Mr Law?
mikllaw
1-Apr-2015
10:18:59 PM
1 tea, 1 coffee per day.

I know that by my previous consumption (1980s, managing Mtn Designs after racing motorbicycles) that's not drinking at all
Nick Clow
2-Apr-2015
9:06:57 AM
Never mind skipping coffee, have you tried:

- stability exercises for your knee(s)? (Climbers generally have outrageous atrophy of their legs generally and quads specifically. If you look at athletes in sports such as tennis and netball, which are hard on the knees, they all do conditioning for knee stability.)

- hot water/ginger poultices? Friendlier and more effective than ibuprofen.

In my early 40s I had severe R knee problems (legacy of a motorcycle accident 20 years previously). Lots of fluid on it, severe inflammation, pain and limping. Saw a specialist who thought about operating, but recommended I first try some quad conditioning and strengthening exercises. 10 years later I do 5 minutes of quad strengthening every other day, stick a hot water/ginger poultice on it on the other day and have no knee problems whatsoever.
mikllaw
2-Apr-2015
9:10:46 AM
What are these stability exercises, I normally do about 30km cycling per week with a brat on the back.

Sabu
2-Apr-2015
9:34:24 AM
In that case you might find some of your muscles are quite strong while others are weaker which results in your knees being pulled in a bad direction (e.g. inward). I cycled for years so my quads were fairly strong but I had issues when I switched to running as the muscles supporting my ITB weren't great. You might find exercises for improving your hip abductors useful (disclaimer: I'm no physio, so don't trust the accuracy of my anecdotal evidence!).

My wife also has knee issues(patellofemoral pain in addition to a recently dislocated kneecap), her physio gave her squats, lunges and wall sits to do to improve strength.

As for the coffee it may be a case of correlation not equalling causation!
Nick Clow
2-Apr-2015
9:39:13 AM
Have a google, but something like:

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/8119350/knee-strengthening-exercises-knee-rehabilitation.htm

Or, better still, see a good physio (if you can find a good one) to show you.

The recommended exercises are isometric/static to build strength/mass in the quad. Cycling won't do anything, not specific enough. The effect won't be immediate, your muscles will need to develop over a few months before you feel the benefit.

TimP
2-Apr-2015
1:24:25 PM
My son some got some great knee exercises for soccer, the main thing was balancing the strength in the thigh. Cycling develops a restricted set of muscles. Knee stability was his problem, I'd imagine similar forces to climbing. One exercise is squats on a wobble board with two fists held between the knees to push against. Also one leg squat on wobble board. There where other balance things on a foam roller. It's all that proprioceptive stuff and engaging muscles that easily atrophy with our sedentary lifestyles, shoes, and flat walking surfaces.
Wendy
2-Apr-2015
4:20:11 PM
On 2/04/2015 Nick Clow wrote:
Climbers generally have outrageous
>atrophy of their legs generally and quads specifically.

I must be doing something wrong. My legs hurt from climbing yesterday. They usually hurt from lugging a rack around as well.
Olbert
5-Apr-2015
10:54:40 AM
I think I have Movie Goers Knee. I've been to a physio but I suspect they were useless. Anyone have any suggestions?
Jayford4321
5-Apr-2015
2:50:08 PM
On 5/04/2015 Olbert wrote:
>I think I have Movie Goers Knee. I've been to a physio but I suspect they
>were useless. Anyone have any suggestions?

Movie Goers Knee?
That is most likely because you were in the Tasmanian position when you did it.
Try the Araps position for better results.
More importantly, how is your partner after inflicting the Tassie affair on them, as quality belays are hard to come by after such mistreatment?

pmonks
6-Apr-2015
9:54:57 AM
On 2/04/2015 mikllaw wrote:
>What are these stability exercises, I normally do about 30km cycling per
>week with a brat on the back.

The Petersen / Poliquin step up exercise is gold - really works the VMO (smaller stabilising muscles above the kneecap). All you need is a step, though an angled board (for the standing foot) is better.
jdb
7-Apr-2015
12:16:53 PM
Might I suggest kneecappucinno.............

There are 18 messages in this topic.

 

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