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Crag & Route Beta

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Ripper Zipper

jrc

2-Jan-2013
5:12:05 PM

well i remember from years ago one of my favourite routes on Aunty Jack wall was Zipper, a bit harder than AJ but a lot better protected with the 2 bolts at the bottom, the bombproof cam (s) in the horizontal and then various solid wires from there to the top,

I had a dose of bronchitis over the last few days so when my partner of many years ago, Matt D sugestted it on Saturday i declined but i got my son Richard to go and give it a shot with him; giving Rich a few hints abbout the gear. When he got back he told me he placed one nut, didn't need any more since there were 5 (yes five) bolts on it now. I thought he must have been on the wrong climb so yesterday, after it cooled off a bit, i went for a wander down to Mt York & i have to say i could scarcely believe what i saw. There are indeed 5 bolts on Zipper , the new 3 each within a metre of good cam or nut pro. They are not even far enough to the side of the route to be a'new route'. I have to say i am a fairly cowardly leader - i even used to put a small wire after the 2nd bolt on the way to the horizontal crack - but 3 new bolts is ridiculous.

Anyway, I dare say its still a fine route if it does lack a bit of the earlier need to think about your gear. At least Aunty Jack is still bolt free; Ross can rest in peace.

kuu

2-Jan-2013
5:58:55 PM

On 2/01/2013 jrc wrote:
> (snip)

" At least Aunty Jack is still bolt free; Ross can rest in peace. "

Yes, but for how long?

Recently on Chockstone there was a thread discussing the pros and cons of placing/replacing bolts on "Spartan" at Mt Piddington. Part of the debate focussed on the need (idea?) of gaining approval from the FA. I would suggest that modern-day bolters rarely, if ever, do this. Which accords with the popular defence that "The FA doesn't own the rock".

Logically, of course, said modern-day bolter has no claim to ownership of the rock either, so it becomes a philosophical or moot point.

Thus I fear that sooner or later the "heritage" left to us by Ross Vining (and others) will be sullied when some aspiring climber decides he/she could lead Aunty Jack (or any of a hundred other climbs) if only it had a few bolts added.

Strategically placed, a bolt or two could transform Aunty Jack from a Red route into a Yellow route! Place a few more bolts and it could even be a Blue route.

SteveC

2-Jan-2013
7:00:47 PM

How many bolts are there on Spartan now? I can remember 1 carrot at the top of the offwidth. And a fairly redundant shitty one at the 1st belay.

There's still a few routes left, but it looks like Mt York is changing from a rock climbing crag to a sport climbing crag.

jrc

2-Jan-2013
11:14:07 PM

Kevin, yes i agree with you. Please note the Spartan thread was (largely) about one bolt being replaced with a more modern one.
The Zipper analogy is a line of bolts along the Spartan traverse....

spicelab

2-Jan-2013
11:38:12 PM

Back in the day I remember getting more scared on Zipper than Auntie Jack, despite Zipper's bolts.

At the time I assumed it was because I was/am a pussy.

Obviously I was wrong - it needed more bolts.

What a relief.

Nick Clow

3-Jan-2013
8:50:47 AM

J/K

You talk about Aunty Jack (semi?) facetiously, but it did effectively get retro-bolted a few years ago when a two ring sport anchor appeared on it. This was chopped very swiftly.

nmonteith

3-Jan-2013
11:45:38 AM

On 2/01/2013 kuu wrote:
>Recently on Chockstone there was a thread discussing the pros and cons
>of placing/replacing bolts on "Spartan" at Mt Piddington. Part of the debate
>focussed on the need (idea?) of gaining approval from the FA. I would suggest
>that modern-day bolters rarely, if ever, do this. Which accords with the
>popular defence that "The FA doesn't own the rock".

What are you basing that on? I've retroed quite a few routes recently - and every one of them I got direct permission from the first ascentist. In fact many of them paid for the bolts!

kuu

3-Jan-2013
1:17:50 PM

Neil, my comments were not specifically aimed at you, or any other particular individual for that matter, they were a generalisation. (Maybe an unfortunate generalisation?) But I would still contend that the majority of retro-bolting occurs without consultation with the FA. And, furthermore, this is more likely to be so in the case of climbs that were put-up by climbers a generation or two older than the bolters -- people the bolters don't know, or perhaps have never even heard of.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

3-Jan-2013
1:30:38 PM

On 2/01/2013 jrc wrote:
>(snip) i could scarcely believe what i saw. There are indeed 5 bolts on Zipper , the new 3 each
>within a metre of good cam or nut pro. They are not even far enough to the side of the route to be a'new route'. I have to say (snip) - 3 new bolts is ridiculous.
>
The 3 new ones don't have to remain there...

On 2/01/2013 kuu wrote:
>On 2/01/2013 jrc wrote:
>> (snip)
>
>" At least Aunty Jack is still bolt free; Ross can rest in peace. "
>
>Yes, but for how long?
>
>Recently on Chockstone there was a thread discussing the pros and cons
>of placing/replacing bolts on "Spartan" at Mt Piddington. Part of the debate
>focussed on the need (idea?) of gaining approval from the FA. I would suggest
>that modern-day bolters rarely, if ever, do this. Which accords with the
>popular defence that "The FA doesn't own the rock".
>
>Logically, of course, said modern-day bolter has no claim to ownership
>of the rock either, so it becomes a philosophical or moot point.
>
>Thus I fear that sooner or later the "heritage" left to us by Ross Vining
>(and others) will be sullied when some aspiring climber decides he/she
>could lead Aunty Jack (or any of a hundred other climbs) if only it had
>a few bolts added.
>
>Strategically placed, a bolt or two could transform Aunty Jack from a
>Red route into a Yellow route! Place a few more bolts and it could even
>be a Blue route.
>
Well said kuu.

duploboy

11-Jun-2013
9:47:01 AM

excuse the ignorance... is Aunty Jack the line on the furthest left of that wall? A metre or two from the arete?

Just this weekend I was looking for a 'black' route according to Simon Carter's guide... but there are 2-3 silver studs spaced between the horizontal breaks, so not sure if I got it wrong, or if it had been retroed.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

11-Jun-2013
1:08:25 PM

This sadly sounds like a retro to me...

Cranky

12-Jun-2013
6:27:42 AM

On 11/06/2013 duploboy wrote:
>excuse the ignorance... is Aunty Jack the line on the furthest left of
>that wall? A metre or two from the arete?
>
>Just this weekend I was looking for a 'black' route according to Simon
>Carter's guide... but there are 2-3 silver studs spaced between the horizontal
>breaks, so not sure if I got it wrong, or if it had been retroed.
>
This sounds like Ykickamookow (21). Aunty Jack is 1-2 metres right, then Zipper on a couple of bolts down low and joining Aunty Jack higher up.

duploboy

13-Jun-2013
9:59:32 AM

Cheers. Will go back and have another look when it's not raining.
Looks dainty!

Siderunner

17-Jun-2013
10:44:00 PM

Chopping bolts is cheaper, quicker, and easier than placing them ...

Always good to gauge community consensus first, of course ;-)

There are 14 messages in this topic.