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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User
OT: Moorabal/Lal Lal wind farm 10-Jun-2009 At 5:39:28 PM harold
Message
Just to keep the debate on track and correct a few misconcpetions, I think you might be demolishing a few straw man arguments of your own Evan
On 10/06/2009 evanbb wrote:

>>All this still leaves my with the questions :
>>1. Why do we believe computer models that have failed to match real data?
>Which computer models? As I've stated more than once, there is a pretty
>big body of observational data that points to increased average tempuratures
>world wide.
I don't think that anyone doubts that temperatures have increased, the skeptics question is over how significant these increases are historically and what is causing them. CO2/methane verses solar activity/natural variation/recovery from little ice age.
>>2. I can't find any evidence to support the hypothesis that increased
>>CO2 can significantly effect our climate.
>Can? Interesting choice of words. You don't give any credit to the science
>of the IPCC because you're not convinced that CO2 can store energy? So
>would you like evidence that this is possible? Anyway, try this resource
>to fill your knowledge gaps:
>http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/FAQ/wg1_faq-1.1.html
>
>The link between CO2 and it's ability to store energy has been known for
>a very long time. Any compound with those covalent bonds will store bucketloads
>of energy.
Again, no one doubts that CO2 stores energy/effect temperature/is a greenhouse gas, the keyword above is 'significantly'. The skeptics hypothesis is that CO2 has only a minor contribution to temperature changes compare to other influences.

What would be cool would be some sort of deadline to end the debate. So the last 10 years is too short to base any conclusions on. How long? How about 2020, is that long enough? Then if the temperature hasn't risen to the dangerous levels predicted by the IPCC/Al Gore we can stop panicking, or if it has you can burn all the skeptics on a stake. Maybe the betting agencies could put odds on it so we can a gamble on the outcome. I reckon the skeptics would get some really good odds at the moment and tony and R James could make some decent cash if they're right.

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