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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
Pro placements per metre

Groveller
23-May-2021
3:16:45 PM
Yesterday went climbing with my son who moaned about how much pro I put in. I put 7 pieces in for a 14 metre climb. He suggests one piece every 5 metres.
Can you put in too much gear?
Should I climb with my wife more who doesn't complain but only climbs once every 2 months.
Olbert
23-May-2021
5:15:50 PM
Maybe hand the rack over to him? He can put in the exact amount of pro which is correct.

Groveller
23-May-2021
8:40:18 PM
Sometimes I do handover the climbing to him but end up yelling at him to put in gear.
gfdonc
24-May-2021
7:16:46 AM
Especially make sure to place your big cams early and often, so the second has to carry them up the rest of the climb. Helps to give them something tangible to complain about.

ajfclark
25-May-2021
3:00:49 PM
On 24-May-2021 gfdonc wrote:
>Especially make sure to place your big cams early and often, so the second has to carry them up the rest of the climb. Helps to give them something tangible to complain about.

If they don't go in, place a small wire instead, and weight it down with the large cams to stop it lifting.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
25-May-2021
6:43:03 PM
On 23-May-2021 Groveller wrote:
>Yesterday went climbing with my son who moaned about how much pro I put in. I put 7 pieces in for a 14 metre climb. He suggests one piece every 5 metres.

Apart from the semi-flippant replies so far that do actually contain good grains of truth, I suspect that you’re seeking more generalised constructive feedback so I shall try to oblige...
A 14m climb eh.
In my opinion gear per metre is related to many things; eg grade involved with associated natural features or lack thereof (pro opportunities and difficulty of placing same), the rock quality (pro quality), the ability of the leader and the associated risk they’re prepared to run (includes fear factor of the landing and any obstacles between falling point and same), and... the length of the climb.

Short climbs (imo 14m is short), demand more gear to prevent decking.
The spacing of the gear is important, as the further out you are from the belay, the further you can space the gear to prevent decking while all the time being mindful of rope stretch assuming the gear placements are up to task. By default this means more gear placed early on the lead.

The Jesus-piece, ie first bit of pro, should especially consider upward forces lifting out subsequent placements when the belay rope comes tight during a fall, and should be good for upward loading.
If the short pitch happens to be way off the deck on a multipitch, then the Jesus-piece needs to also be good for downward loading to help minimise forces being transferred to the belay. Equalised doubled up placements often solve this scenario.

So, 14m with a sport-climbing safety mentality... I reckon your 7 pieces equals that scenario assuming the rock quality is good, placements are easy and the landings not horrendous.
More gear required if the above factors are in the ‘iffy’ category, and less gear required if the grade is well within the leaders ability.
As mentioned earlier, the climb itself dictates many of the parameters involved.

>Can you put in too much gear?

See above.

>Should I climb with my wife more who doesn't complain but only climbs once every 2 months.

... It depends on how much your ears hurt after your recent experience!
;-)

As an aside; the spectrum is wide - ranging from Alex Honnold free-solo of major walls in Yosemite to the grid bolter mentality of doing that to any available piece of rock...

To quantify my reply; I tend to consider myself to be in the generally considered ‘scarier leads’ end of the spectrum.
PeterW
25-May-2021
10:20:11 PM
While I largely agree with M9, here's an alternative view to consider.

Many (many) years ago when I was climbing a lot better (and when soloing was less common than now) I used to solo climbs at Werribee Gorge up to around 17 or so as a "warm up". One day I was climbing with someone new to crack climbing so I lead him up Conscientious Pontius, a climb I usually soloed. I scared myself silly hanging around trying to get gear in! (No cams back then!)

My point is that sometimes (and I stress "sometimes") it's better to skip a placement than to guarantee you'll need it! (Although as M9 says, not so much near the ground.)

On the other hand, if you're following a bomber crack that you can throw gear in with barely a pause, why not lace it?

Lastly, in my experience seconds complain about leaders putting in too much gear when the leader spends "too long" placing it! :-)
White Trash
27-May-2021
11:37:44 AM
On 25-May-2021 PeterW wrote:
>Lastly, in my experience seconds complain about leaders putting in too much gear when the leader spends "too long" placing it! :-)

I reckon PW might’ve just hit the mark, and if so, offer another alternative to consider.
Go aid climbing with your son.
The amount of gear and speed of ascent for it will make your current free climbing together seem lightweight and speedy!

There are 8 messages in this topic.

 

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