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The Irish Solution to The Ben Lomond Problem 15-Oct-2017 At 6:40:12 PM One Day Hero

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On 13-Oct-2017 Wendy wrote:
>But why is this a better solution than just explaining to that person
>that "because A exists, more A may as well exist" is not an argument? And
>then if they go and bolt routes, go and remove those.

Because removing bolts is giant pain in the arse (much more than placing them). Also, even if you do a perfect job, the damage the bolter did to the rock remains. Somehow this seems to get blamed on the de-bolter, I don't really understand the logic so just file under "sport climbers are retards".

>Everyone keeps telling
>me, but it happens, it happens all the time, we have to stop it at the
>start of the slope, and then give me a few not very good examples.

Some examples;

Arapiles-
I reckon the number of bolts has at least doubled since I started going there in the 90s, despite the fact that barely any worthwhile routes have been added in that time. It started with reasonable steps (e.g. the tat pile on top of Tarantula), and quickly slippled down the slope until squeeze jobs, retrobolts, and unnecessary loweroffs are popping up everywhere. Shit, even usually sensible climbers have bolted some total shite squeeze jobs down there. Araps is the textbook case for slippery slope in bolting.

Taipan-
Replacing old bolts which is good and fine, led to..............

Replacing fixed gear with bolts, which is pushing it (e.g. the tat at the top of Sirrocco p1 was kinda dodgy, but a bolted belay/rap at a stonker horizontal which was used as a gear belay for 20 years?!?!), led to..........

Adding a loweroff at the top of a mantle-out route and adding bolts next to bomber gear. f--- off, this is not ok, those bolts are going to get pulled.

Thompson's Point-
Was never a "sport cliff", heavily developed prior to the "sport crag proclamation" at P.C. and Bomaderry. Modern climbers may be interested to know that the whole descent gully, Orca, Gunbarrel Highway, Betty Blue, and a host of others were established as mixed routes and respected as such for years. Then justifications were invented for retroing until eventually "no one brings a rack to nowra anymore" was used to retrobolt the final routes.

Is that enough examples? I can keep going if you like.

>Despite the proliferation of bolts
>over the years, most people still accept that we only place them when trad
>gear is lacking.

Have you been to Point Perp lately? Bolts next to horizontal breaks galore!

>And if you are going to argue
>that the bolts ruin a traditional approach, then a fixed line from the
>top does just as much and may as well be seen by some equally illogical
>person as the start of a slope to fixed anchors and bolted routes.

The fixed line goes away after a while without leaving holes, and without anyone having to chop it.

>The anchors were in for 8 years or so without any other bolts appearing,
>suggesting that people were quite happily agreeing with the division between
>having an anchor and having bolted routes.

See, this is a sensible and reasonable statement. I would like to live in a climbing world where everyone was sensible and reasonable. In that world, the bolted rap route at Ben Lomond could have remained. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. We live in a world full of trigger-happy o.c.d. kooks, whose hobby is better described as rock bolting than rock climbing. These fuching retards ruin it for everyone, so we have to have a bolt-free Ben, and I have to go out chopping fuching retrobolts when I'd much rather be climbing!