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The Eyrie, Mt Boyce retrobolted! Badly... 2-Jan-2017 At 6:07:46 PM Wendy

Message

On 2/01/2017 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 2/01/2017 Wendy wrote:
>>M9, did you misunderstand what I said about the Eyrie? I said it didn't
>>fit my criteria for retrobolting ...
>
>I understand that, but disagree with other bits like; ...
>>I vote for replacing them with...
>Why the need?

We can definitely disagree about that one! i think carrots should be history.
>
>>There are already new routes covered in them on that wall anyway
>~> Poor precedent.
>
It does mean that replacing a single bolt elsewhere on that
wall with another hanger is not the issue of the wall. The main issue with the "new" routes for me is not the fixed hangers, it is that some of them retro other routes whilst claiming to be new routes. I wish people putting up new routes could read guidebooks in the first place.

>>The Blueys have always been a crap place to be a beginner.
>That wasn't my experience

But those were the "good ol' days" .... climbing was almost never really safe then. These days climbing can actually be safe, but there is crap all to learn on in the Blueys without going back to the good ol' days style - not many really easy routes, lots of questionable rock, ledges, questionable gear and falling off is going to be serious.

>
>>learning trad (which in all honesty is best done at Araps)
>... and one would end up molly-coddled by bomber rock and placements which
>isn't necessarily the case climbing elsewhere.

So? Does one need to actually learn on crappy rock and poor gear? What use is that? My argument is that one can get basic competence in placing gear, rope management etc. in good conditions and then gradually transfer those skills to more challenging situations. It also means that beginners are less likely to be getting out of their depth and getting hurt and people can stop doing things like retrobolting easier Blueys routes to meet a demand for safe beginner experiences in the Blueys which don't really exist otherwise.
>
>>or being restricted to the same few areas
>(see above)

I'm talking about those people who insist on limiting their climbing to easy sport routes. If that's all someone wants to climb, they have a limited pool of routes to choose from and I don't think we should just make easy sport routes happen (by bolting naturally protectable lines, retrobolting etc etc) to cater for them. Surely this is a point we actually agree on???
>
>> t/r until they can climb high teens (etc)
>Why not simply learn trad from a Guide, mentor, books, mates, etc...

This was again talking about those people who are asking for easy sport routes. They can just top rope until they are capable of climbing the grades that sport climbing becomes prolific at. Learning trad was the other option in my list for people who for whatever reason never climb at the level at which sport climbing takes off. I don't really understand the modern aversion to trad. It is the easiest way to access a wide range of safe climbing experiences at all grades.

I would have thought we agreed about the range of options that are realistically available to the crowd demanding easy sport as if we could just wave a wand and find a cliff loaded with jugs but no gear placements.

On the carrots however, you and Macca will just have to share a few drinks shaking your heads at my irresponsible rejection of Australia's climbing history ...