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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
hanging rock access
skegly
25/02/2014
8:41:57 AM
Hi
Can access t approach masadon shire /parks vic about re opening rope rock climbing at hanging rock. There seems to be a fair bit of media about the rock at the moment.
Cheers
Mic

shortman
25/02/2014
8:49:51 AM
Out of interest...are you a VCC member skegly?
access t CliffCare
25/02/2014
9:20:20 AM
On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>Hi
>Can access t approach masadon shire /parks vic about re opening rope rock
>climbing at hanging rock. There seems to be a fair bit of media about the
>rock at the moment.
>Cheers
>Mic

Research is occurring and approach will be made when the time is right. Not a quick fix.

Cheers,
Tracey
skegly
25/02/2014
11:30:33 AM
Thanks Tracy just thought with all the hype around development at hanging rock there might be a window to re open the subject.

Hi shortman. Due to the lack of funds over the last couple of years getting the bug back I havent enlisted to vcc but hope when funds improve I will. But I don't see why my question arises your interest in my vcc membership of not. I gather that the fees go towards the access fund but how does that affect a question for the good of all. It was after all our grey beards activities on the rock that caused the closer( a little birdie told me)
grangrump
25/02/2014
11:34:03 AM
Damn.
Might have been able to go climbing AND sticky beak The Rolling Stones concert...
skegly
25/02/2014
12:04:31 PM
Hi again Tracy
When did cliff care last meet with Macedon council and what was the outcome. As I live in the political boundaries I feel us climbers have a right to enjoy the park as do the many others. Its not like we are starved of quality rock around these parts but every time I drive past the western side of the rock I wonder.i know alot of wild times were had there and many 'bolting' adventure took place and considering its open to just about every other activity.
kieranl
25/02/2014
12:27:01 PM
On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>
>It was after all our grey beards
>activities on the rock that caused the closer( a little birdie told me)

From memory, the closure was triggered when the managers were successfully sued after a child slipped on the tourist steps.

shortman
25/02/2014
12:34:56 PM
On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:

>Hi shortman. Due to the lack of funds over the last couple of years getting
>the bug back I havent enlisted to vcc but hope when funds improve I will.

Sorry to hear that....and glad to hear that.

> But I don't see why my question arises your interest in my vcc membership
>of not.

I believe it to be, (VCC Membership), a good starting point in the issue(s) you raise. It shows a willingness to support the access officer, in whom the VCC supports....And with membership would come more information and also understanding of the possible difficulties.

>I gather that the fees go towards the access fund but how does
>that affect a question for the good of all.

It does not affect the question....unless of course it was taken as an attack and thus defended as opposed to just being a question...:)

>It was after all our grey beards
>activities on the rock that caused the closer( a little birdie told me)

Yep...but shit happens..


skegly
25/02/2014
12:51:20 PM
On 25/02/2014 kieranl wrote:
>On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>>
>>It was after all our grey beards
>>activities on the rock that caused the closer( a little birdie told me)
>
>From memory, the closure was triggered when the managers were successfully
>sued after a child slipped on the tourist steps.

I heard that a certain well known climber got a bit carried away when the law on seat belts in cars for safety was introduced. No names as the said person has helped me and many others in the sport we love.
access t CliffCare
25/02/2014
12:59:11 PM
On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>On 25/02/2014 kieranl wrote:
>>On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>>>
>>>It was after all our grey beards
>>>activities on the rock that caused the closer( a little birdie told
>me)
>>
>>From memory, the closure was triggered when the managers were successfully
>>sued after a child slipped on the tourist steps.
>
>I heard that a certain well known climber got a bit carried away when
>the law on seat belts in cars for safety was introduced. No names as the
>said person has helped me and many others in the sport we love.

You don't really need to say the name when you have explained it like that..
That, like lots of stories about Hanging Rock and other places is campfire supposition. And there are many of them around.
It's more along the lines of Kierans explanation. Rarely straightforward though. Years of changes in people, records and memories makes it like a little treasure hunt.
skegly
25/02/2014
1:03:48 PM
On 25/02/2014 shortman wrote:
>On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>
>>Hi shortman. Due to the lack of funds over the last couple of years getting
>>the bug back I havent enlisted to vcc but hope when funds improve I will.
>
>Sorry to hear that....and glad to hear that.
Thanks
>
>> But I don't see why my question arises your interest in my vcc membership
>>of not.
>
>I believe it to be, (VCC Membership), a good starting point in the issue(s)
>you raise. It shows a willingness to support the access officer, in whom
>the VCC supports....And with membership would come more information and
>also understanding of the possible difficulties.
>
I understand that. I also have done allot to gain access to several crags which I endeavour to open and give back to our community. So I do have some understanding of access issues
>>
I gather that the fees go towards the access fund but how does
>>that affect a question for the good of all.
>
>It does not affect the question....unless of course it was taken as an
>attack and thus defended as opposed to just being a question...:)
>
I did question it as I only asked the question after listening to the local abc and thought it was better the our community rep respond rather than a individual.

>>It was after all our grey beards
>>activities on the rock that caused the closer( a little birdie told me)
>
>Yep...but shit happens..
>all the more reason to protect and be respectful of our crags and the environment.
>
>
dalai
Online Now
25/02/2014
2:27:50 PM
On 25/02/2014 skegly wrote:
>I heard that a certain well known climber got a bit carried away when
>the law on seat belts in cars for safety was introduced. No names as the
>said person has helped me and many others in the sport we love.

No was as Kieran suggests - plus was around the time of the Lal Lal falls accident. Easiest option was to ban climbing at Hanging rock and other spots around the State...

Enjoyed climbing there prior to the ban, including the climb Belt Up ;-). Would be great if the area was opened up but not holding my breath...
kieranl
25/02/2014
3:15:47 PM
I think the ban was probably a requirement of the management committee continuing to get insurance following the payout. Something along the lines of "don't expect us to keep insuring you if climbing is still allowed there". The insurer had just seen a truck driven through what they considered "fair and reasonable" and they would have wanted to tighten things up.

sbm
25/02/2014
4:28:57 PM
Hmm I've just done a little reading on public liability in Australia. This was interesting

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/1918/the-nsw-civil-liability-act-and-community-particip.aspx

"Section 5L [of the NSW Civil Liability Act] provides a complete exclusion of liability if an obvious risk inherent in a dangerous recreational activity materialises and causes harm. This exclusion applies whether or not the injured person was aware of the risk."

Seems to me the main fear over litigation for rock climbing is that there simply isn't any precedent. If there was one case where e.g. the risk of an individual bolt failing was ruled to be "an obvious risk" (which it is) and the landowner/defendant won, insuring for climbing related liability would be a lot less unattractive.
robin
25/02/2014
9:26:59 PM
Good luck with that one. I suspect I was probably part of the last convoy of climbers to endeavour to re-open hanging rock, happy to be corrected if I wasn't. It was about 15 years ago the VCC had a formal meeting with the managers of the park. My memory is a bit vague, but as I recall there were a number of issues that were left unresolved. Rupert Freeman may also have attended as the then VCC access officer, but I'm not sure about that one.

Key issue I recall was public safety of visitors, not climbers. Many of the climbs we looked at were above high use walking tracks, and I mean really high use. My recollection of the reason for banning climbing is consistent with both Kieran and Dalais' version.

With the proposed commercial development of the area there may be an opportunity to re-open climbing but I suspect it will be very limited. I suspect it would be limited to commercial operators with select areas being set aside for abseiling and possibly top-roping.

It would be worth re-visiting this issue & seeing what the current state of play is. Access T may have some more recent information but certainly when we looked at it we hit a brick wall, that is a brick wall with no climbing holds.
climberer
26/02/2014
12:52:15 PM
There is a fair bit of media about Hanging Rock at the moment. Do you understand why? The local council wants to build a conference centre, accommodation, permanent stage and apartments (apart from other things) there. Would you like something like this built at Arapiles, so you could look down on it from the top?

I would like to climb there too but I don't think it's the right time to take advantage of current publicity to push for climbing there. Can't see how that's in the best interests of the VCC either (and I'm glad to see Tracey is on board with this). IF development proceeds, and Council actually consults with the community and broader users of the Rock, then by all means talk to them about climbing.

In the meantime a lot of local community members are working hard to raise awareness of what's happening (yep I'm one of them), and pushing for consultation - which I imagine most of you value. Details and background at http://www.hrag.info
dalai
Online Now
26/02/2014
2:02:28 PM
On 26/02/2014 climberer wrote:
Details and background at www.hrag.info

Just read through the info and signed the petition. Disgusting proposal by Macedon Council!
climberer
26/02/2014
2:14:02 PM
Thanks Dalai! We need all the publicity we can get. Have been working on this for six months with council showing no sign of backing down yet.

ajfclark
26/02/2014
2:27:30 PM
For those who like to click rather than copy paste: http://www.hrag.info

There are 19 messages in this topic.

 

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