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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40
Author
Cable Car over Mt Wellington's Organ Pipes

Doug
4/02/2014
9:54:32 AM
The possibility of a cable car being built on Mt Wellington directly over the Organ Pipes has been ratcheted up another notch with the proponent finally coming out and publicly stating that is his preferred option: http://www.themercury.com.au/lifestyle/backer-pushes-pipes-route/story-fnj64o6u-1226815381186
With an election looming in Tasmania and a strong move to the right along with a major step backwards in terms of protection for the environment likely, the possibility of this proposal getting up will increase.
So what?, many of you might ask. Good question. While not opposed to a cable car per se, I object to the notion of it going straight up the face of Mt Wellington for a number of reasons. The most selfish of those reasons is that there is almost nothing I enjoy more in this world than sitting on belay after climbing a pitch on the Organ Pipes and enjoying an unimpeded view out over Hobart and its environs.
If you have ever visited Hobart either as a tourist or to climb, hike or ride a bike on Mt Wellington, you might like to comment on that prospect here or on the thread in thesarvo:
http://www.thesarvo.com/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=327385177&focusedCommentId=327385189#comment-327385189
patto
4/02/2014
10:07:05 AM
I welcome our new cable car overlords.

While they are at it, it would be great to see one get put in that goes from the Pines to the Bluffs.
bones
4/02/2014
11:00:56 AM
Can't you drive to the top if you want the view but not the walk?
Cam McKenzie
4/02/2014
2:02:11 PM
On 4/02/2014 bones wrote:
>Can't you drive to the top if you want the view but not the walk?

Yes, there's a road that goes to the summit already. There is no way that this thing can be financially viable unless they've got some crafty plan to stop people going up the road.
lacto
4/02/2014
3:33:03 PM
No need for a crafty plan ! the case already stands
1 The road is windy and dangerous and the surface and width is not up to current standards .
2 The transmission towers at the top can and do interfere with cars ignition and auto locking .
3 Save carbon , soo- much fuel used getting all those vehicles up and down v's a carbon free electric (renewable energy hydro )
4 Currently no control on who and when people go up.
5 If they can find $16 M for a cadburys tourist facility of course the money will be there for such a job creating project 1

Doug
10/07/2014
12:57:38 PM
On 4/02/2014 lacto wrote:
>No need for a crafty plan ! the case already stands
>1 The road is windy and dangerous and the surface and width is not up
>to current standards .
This is errant nonsense. Full size tourist coaches travel to the summit and I am unaware of any accidents involving them. The road up Mt Wellington is wider than many tourist roads I've travelled on in Europe, including some in the Pyrenees, Corsica and the Dolomites in Italy.
>2 The transmission towers at the top can and do interfere with cars ignition
>and auto locking .
Irrelevant to the discussion, and such a minor problem affecting so few people that it doesn't warrant a mention. In any case, that problem might actually have been resolved as I haven't heard of any instances for a very long time. Whatever. Putting a cable car up will not get rid of the towers; new technology might eventually do so.
>3 Save carbon , soo- much fuel used getting all those vehicles up and
>down v's a carbon free electric (renewable energy hydro )
How many tourists who have driven to Hobart will choose to take the cable car in preference to their own vehicle, when riding the cable car will cost $45 per head? The cable car proponents have backed away from their initial position that the road "might have to close" as it was simply too unpopular.
>4 Currently no control on who and when people go up.
And the problem with that is ... ?
>5 If they can find $16 M for a cadburys tourist facility of course the
>money will be there for such a job creating project 1
MWCC have explicitly stated that their project will be self-funded, i.e. they are not asking for taxpayers' money.

Flippancy aside, the situation has now reached a critical stage in regards to the current proposal to build a cable car on Mount Wellington. MWCC have now put a submission before the Wellington Park Management Trust to have the Pinnacle Special Zone expanded to allow for the construction of a cable car that will run directly above the Organ Pipes, with a 30 metre high tower perched on the edge of the Columns, and a 15 metre high terminus situated directly behind The Columns.
You can see their plan here: http://www.mtwellingtoncablecar.com/#!the-route/c18s9

However, the MWCC's plan is in direct contravention of a number of guidelines in the Wellington Park Management Plan.

There is nothing in this for climbers: we stand to lose a great deal. The potential damage to the Organ Pipes from the blasting that is required is one issue. How much concrete will have to be poured to support the top "anchor" of the cable car? How much for the building itself? How much blasting to put in the footings for both of those structures? It is inconceivable that there will not be damage to the Organ Pipes, let alone the aesthetic implications.

If you have climbed on the Organ Pipes on Mount Wellington, I urge you to contact members of the Wellington Park Management Trust and voice your opposition to the proposal, you might be able to help stop it by writing to members of the Wellington Park Management Trust. Their contact details are as follows:

Dr Christine Mucha cmucha@iinet.net.au
Ald Bill Harvey billharvey@iinet.net.au
Ald Philip C*#ker philip_council@netspace.net.au
Ms Rita Warrener rita.warrener@tourism.tas.gov.au
Ald Haydyn Nielsen haydyn.nielsen@gcc.tas.gov.au
Mr Ashley Rushton ashley.rushton@parks.tas.gov.au
Mr Cam Crawford Cam.Crawford@taswater.com.au
Dr John Whittington john.whittington@dpipwe.tas.gov.au

ambyeok
10/07/2014
3:18:24 PM
Tourism brings over a billion dollars to the Tasmanian economy every year, so one point of view would be that the cable car and it's ilk are contributors to you being able to be there and enjoy the views in the first place. Kind of like "yes, but not in my back yard".

Edit: I wonder if they would let us use it to tow up top-ropes?
Cam McKenzie
10/07/2014
3:24:13 PM
On 10/07/2014 ambyeok wrote:
>Tourism brings over a billion dollars to the Tasmanian economy every year,
>so one point of view would be that the cable car and it's ilk are contributors
>to you being able to be there and enjoy the views in the first place. Kind
>of like "yes, but not in my back yard".
>
>Edit: I wonder if they would let us use it to tow up top-ropes?

How viable do you think this thing can possibly be? Tasmania just doesn't have the population or tourist density for something like this to be self sufficient. We're not in Europe. Look at the super duper chair lift thing down at Arthur's Seat. I imagine they probably get more tourists down there than Hobart does.

How many locals do you reckon are going to pay $45 (or whatever it's going to be) a ride up the mountain? How many tourists? Completely ignoring the environmental impact (and the fact that they may well blow up the top of Sky Rocket, the best pitch of grade 20 climbing in the world), my concern is that this will be built, found to be completely economically unviable, and then run by the tax payer.


2G
10/07/2014
3:26:13 PM
Yeh I can't imagine they would ever be able to close the road. Think they spent $millions on that new MTB track halfway up only a few years ago. Tracks all the way up and down the road are heavily used by bushwalkers, MTB all year long, not to mention cyclists
Cam McKenzie
10/07/2014
4:13:04 PM
Mountain bikers are apparently pretty keen on the idea because they don't like doing car shuttles (and don't like riding up hills). I can't see it being all that appealing once the reality of how much each ride will cost sets in.
martym
10/07/2014
4:26:14 PM
An in related conversation at work where we were alkkng about Tassie, someone said - I really want to go see their museum of new art- it's apparently world class...
I said that's the first time I've heard someone say they want to take an interstate flight to go to a museum, especially considering tassie's natural wonders.
But he does live in Hazelbrook, so perhaps traveling to see natural wonders isn't the first thing on his mind... I wonder whether he'll be enticed by a cable car ride..

Duang Daunk
10/07/2014
4:54:46 PM
I reckon it will be great.
Imagine it.
Climbers timing their raps to access base of climbs easily from a moving platform!
>Best grade 20?
Wtf? There are heaps there, so who gives a rats about the loss of one?
The last thing I want to do is take out a fatigued mtn biker coming down when going up in my car.
The cablecar solves all my worries.

Doug
10/07/2014
7:52:15 PM
I have just heard that the Wellington Park Management Trust will call for submissions shortly. There will be a period of 30 days during which time submissions can be made. Officially, the Trust will not consider submissions made after or before that period, so any individuals and indeed the CCT should hold off making submissions until that period is announced.
I can't stress enough how important it is for anyone who wants to continue to access and enjoy the the climbing on Mount Wellington's Organ Pipes, especially the area stretching from The Flange through The Columns to The Amphitheatre, to make a submission to the Wellington Park Management Trust.

ambyeok
11/07/2014
1:14:07 PM
On 10/07/2014 Cam McKenzie wrote:
>How viable do you think this thing can possibly be?

I dont know much about the economic area but my gut feel tells me its a shitty idea. Probably up there with the Melbourne Star observation wheel.
patto
11/07/2014
2:12:38 PM
On 11/07/2014 ambyeok wrote:
>
>I dont know much about the economic area but my gut feel tells me its
>a shitty idea. Probably up there with the Melbourne Star observation wheel.

Hehehe, yes it would be up there... :-) But at least this cable car is giving nice views and leading to a nice location. The Melbourne Star is an eyesore and a tacky tourist drawcard which any self respecting tourist would avoid.

The cable car I think would be great except for the impact on the organ pipes and the overriding question of economic viability. At $10 a for a return trip that would be great and would be used enthusiastically. At $40, I would simply enjoy the drive up.


I can see why MTBers would love this. If the operators has any sense then they would have an off peak all day rate. So they can do laps. The cable car will hardly be capacity constrained.
lacto
11/07/2014
3:50:01 PM
On 4/02/2014 lacto wrote:
>No need for a crafty plan ! the case already stands
>1 The road is windy and dangerous and the surface and width is not up
>to current standards .
>2 The transmission towers at the top can and do interfere with cars ignition
>and auto locking .
>3 Save carbon , soo- much fuel used getting all those vehicles up and
>down v's a carbon free electric (renewable energy hydro )
>4 Currently no control on who and when people go up.
>5 If they can find $16 M for a cadburys tourist facility of course the
>money will be there for such a job creating project 1

doug must be a complete fool if he believes any of the above or that I favour a chairlift but then he apparently is a Tasmanian.
Recently I heard the Tasmanian senator wanting to scrap the dole because there are about 20 unfilled jobs for milkers on dairy farms in the north west of Tassie . (some 20000 unemployed in Tassie ) with logic like that then I am sure the money would be made available to fund such a dead loss project .
Years ago we bypassed the just opened chairlift up the Nut at Stanley and had someone virtually walk to the top with us to get us to go on their stupid chair lift then offering a discount to go down !!
james
12/07/2014
12:45:16 AM
I don't necessarily think this gondola on Mt Wellington is a good idea, but I also don't think the $40 cost will deter people. Tourons love these type of things... think people who fly into Tasmania, want to see some cool scenery, but don't want to rent a car just to drive up. Daily lift tickets for skiing in Australia are $120 (?) now, $40 seems like a bargain in comparison.

There are a number of sightseeing-only gondolas in western Canada & they really are licenses to print money, the things are busy year round, & totally packed in summer. On top of this every ski hill that has summer mountain biking sell a significant number of sightseeing only tickets, & its common to sell more sightseeing tickets than biking tickets in a summer.

Cam McKenzie
12/07/2014
9:47:12 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Western Canada is probably more populous (and has more tourists) than Hobart.
spicelab
13/07/2014
1:56:30 PM
I'll eat my underpants if it ever happens.

Weather and visibility on the Mount are shit for the majority of the year meaning there's nothing to see once you get up there and no incentive to get out and wander around.

The wind is frequently insane, meaning the engineering challenges are so significant that the final price tag will be stratospheric, especially when taking into account the limited patronage.

On top of these engineering costs are those associated with navigating the environmental impact assessment process, which would be an absolute shitfight given how many people/properties would be directly affected.

I can put you in to touch with my mum if you want more reasons.

Doug
13/07/2014
3:11:43 PM
On 13/07/2014 spicelab wrote:
>I'll eat my underpants if it ever happens.
I hope that won't be necessary! :-0
>
>Weather and visibility on the Mount are shit for the majority of the year
>meaning there's nothing to see once you get up there and no incentive to
>get out and wander around.
That's what we keep saying but that doesn't seem to deter the proponents or those supporters who don't actually spend much time on the mountain. The danger there is that if it is built and proves to be the white elephant that many people think it will is that the taxpayer will end up paying to run it - or have it removed. You can count on the Liberals for that, to whom Adrian Bold is well connected
>
>The wind is frequently insane, meaning the engineering challenges are
>so significant that the final price tag will be stratospheric, especially
>when taking into account the limited patronage.
Actually, with the proposed location, wind will be a non-factor. They want to site the terminus below the current lookout. Anyone who's done much walking on the mountain in inclement weather - primarily strong westerlies/north-westerlies - can tell you that there is a huge reduction in wind exposure as soon as you drop down off of the summit plateau.
>
>On top of these engineering costs
The engineering costs will be cheapest with the route they have proposed, but would do the most damage to the environment of the Organ Pipes and the shelf above.

are those associated with navigating
>the environmental impact assessment process, which would be an absolute
>shitfight given how many people/properties would be directly affected.
I certainly hope you are right about this, but there are dark forces massing behind this proposal which would have no qualms about trampling the environment in the name of "development". The best hope there is in terms of stopping it is to put forth as many cases against is as possible - during the actual period that submissions will be accepted.
>
>I can put you in to touch with my mum if you want more reasons.
Can you ask her if she will put in a submission for us?
>

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There are 40 messages in this topic.

 

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