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Poll Option Votes Graph
Yes - always (spam) 1
Yes - only if someone requests product information 2
Yes - only if someone requests product availabilty 0
Yes - both 2 & 3 25
Yes - but only by Personal Message function 1
No 10
Yes - only if sponsorship is disclosed in reply 20

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 75
Advertising or Information?

12:18:17 PM
Should retailers and sponsored climbers be allowed to mention their products in Chockstone forums?

12:50:09 PM
Just so that people know what we're talking about, here is an example:

Someone asks about a sharp-edge tolerant rope, of which there are only a couple. A sponsored climber responds saying they use the Edelweiss Sharp and that they were happy with it, and provided a link for more information.

If you don't have a problem with this, you should vote for one of the Yes options.

If you do have a problem with this kind of comment, you should vote No.

master of drung
1:06:21 PM
Any information is potentially of interest, climbers invariably being gear freaks. The only two issues i can think of are one that the owner of the site doesn't like their hard work taken advantage of, sponsors compromised etc(fair enough but their business) and two that it doesn't swamp the forum which i guess is a subjective thing but i wouldn't have thought this was a problem at the moment.

1:06:49 PM
It was on the 'Gear Lust' portion of this site and in that context I saw it as OK but I also agree with nmonteith
>The content was ok - the link was not. The link should have been to the manufacturers site, not an online shop

41 hits on the topic and only 6 votes (so far) indicates most are not concerned? However I would read this as the mods have been doing a good job to date in keeping the spam down to a minimum.
Thank you mods :)

It becomes a grey area when the readers don't know the climbers opinion is perhaps a sponsored one. Maybe the mods could insert a 'bell icon' like John Laws has to ring every time he mentions a sponsors product even if he isn't pushing the product at the time !?

KP once wrote
>after all it is the internet
So what do we expect?
Me? ... I can live without the adds, but I appreciate being able to find info when the question is asked.

Post edit
I voted 'No' but believe middle ground exists (as above) especially if we are able to make informed decisions on both the product and the source of the info.
Perhaps the posters own integrity can be used in the form of them hitting on (inserting) a bell icon to save mods the decision?
If things turn to a spam flood then mods still have the right to delete!

1:12:18 PM
There is many examples Manacubas - but there needs to be one set rule.

Example question - "What is a good climbing shoe?"
Example Answer - "FunkyShoes make lots of great styles including the fabulous Rindinger, you can
see it on"

That to me is not acceptable coming from a gear shop or a sponsored climber.

An acceptable question answer scenerio in my opinion would be.

Example question - "I heard the FunkyShoes Ringdinger's are really good - what do others think?"
Example Answer - "I recieve free Ringdingers through sponsorship. They are a great shoe and I have
climbed all of my hard ticks with them. They edge really well. Check out for
more product information"
Example question - "They sound great. Where can i get them?"
Example answer - "I just PMed you the shop name as the shop name conflicts with Chockstones ant-
spam policy. Feel free to PM me if anyone else want the shop name"
1:12:54 PM
another message by a sponsored climber. ( in reply to Manacubus first post)

Don't go geting irate Manky, I actually agree with you. this poll is a little too black and white.

It's a little hard to ring a cow bell but the like of John Laws has to mention when people are a sponsor of his. Perhaps this might be incorporated and taken to the extent of " I use this but it is part of sponsored kit". From this poll and other posts the issue is held with the store owners and sponsored climbers only. This means that Climber X from outer broadmeadows who started 6 months ago can go posting links and info. I doubt I'd ever get sponored, except by Centrelink pensions dept, so the poll does not reflect my opinion. Perhaps the poll need to be a little less like a referendum, one that won't just give you the answer you want to hear. I might rethink the poll perhaps.

Another option is to have multiple personalitiesthen you can post away and advertise as much as you like.


[edit] damn beaten by the bell of posting

1:18:45 PM
On 13/07/2005 master of drung wrote:
>i wouldn't have thought this was
>a problem at the moment.

Admin's have had to delete quite a bit of Spam in the last year when several prominant retail outlets
started posting direct to Chockstone. We act quickly and swiftly, so usually most users would not notice
the stuff disapearing.

1:27:46 PM
On 13/07/2005 manacubus wrote:
>A sponsored climber responds saying they use the Edelweiss Sharp
>and that they were happy with it, and provided a link for more information.

What is the difference between a sponsored climber and a retail store owner? They both profit directly
from increased sales. The sponsored climber will get more gear which directly saves them money. If you
put a name out in the public space then people will remeber it. It is called advertising. Most companys
pay for their advertising however. When the same companies use public forums such as this they don't
need to pay - its called guerrilla marketing. Read the book No Logo to understand the full extent of what
we get fed daily by corporations. I am in the advertsing business so i know how it works folks!
1:40:19 PM
On 13/07/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>What is the difference between a sponsored climber and a retail store
>owner? They both profit directly
>from increased sales. The sponsored climber will get more gear which directly
>saves them money.

Soooo not true! Size of sponsorship is not proportional to company profit. Nor is the nature of subsequent years sponsorship proportional to company profit.

1:43:18 PM
So if the company goes down the drain (bankrupt) they will keep paying you Jacqui?? That IS a sweet
deal you have got going!

1:46:35 PM
Also, I can tell you right now that your sponsors arn't giving you free gear from the goodness of their
hearts. They use your profile and public exposure to get their products noticed. Thus they sell more gear
and make more money. Both of you 'profit' from the exercise.

The Elk
2:06:21 PM
What about:
YES: But sponsored climber should state they are sponsored or from a certain retailer....? Or something to that effect.

A sponsored climber probably has a bias toward a certain brand due to the sponsorship issue itself. Therefore while they may find a certain product 'super duper' does it take away the genuineness of their comment?

2:10:39 PM
How about YES... but ONLY if they paid their own hard earned cash for it and that has to be attached to the said bell.

It would be prudent not to anooy too many of the other gear shops in case the Crockstone sponsor goes under, unless they will keep paying of course.

Bob Saki
2:17:18 PM
If a climber uses a product and in their experience finds it to be particularly good for whatever reason (whether they are sponsored or not) I would think it would be useful to have that knowledge. So ideally that person would list the brand, model etc and we could all benefit from a proven product. (Or would this be considered not appropriate? or should a sponsored climber admit his/her allegiances?). This is especially good for novice climbers like me who rely on peoples reccommendations when shopping for equipment so they at least have starting point (especially for items that don't need to fit a persons shape or size requirements such as rope, quickdraws etc..)

I may a bit off topic here but I thought I add the usefullness I find in knowing a good product from those far more advanced who have used it before.

2:25:28 PM
so far only sponsered climbers and retailers are mentioned
wat about the rest of us?? are we allowed to say i bought nuts from this shop, im really happy with them, here is the link.... if one generally asks about it?

2:31:27 PM
On 13/07/2005 sabu wrote:
>wat about the rest of us?? are we allowed to say i bought nuts from this

You don't profit directly or in-directly from your post. You can post whatever you want and place links to
whatever you like!
2:34:06 PM
First and foremost there is a responsibility to protect the site sponsor! For without the sponsor, chances are there wouldn't be this local forum which we are viewing! It's therefore in our interest that the site owner and moderators who help out do sometimes make 'lineball' decisions in regards to post content protecting the rights of the sponsor.

Sponsored climbers comments - interesting that this has come up finally. I know which climbers are sponsored and do find their comments often just marketing.
Knowing they receive the product through sponsorship without making this clear is misleading for those unaware.
For example. Comments like "I wear Triop "Wings" shoes exclusively." without the clarification that these are provided free as part of a sponsorship deal. I could only find one comment noting this link between the products they were commenting on!(interesting the two loudest against such moderation are those sponsored climbers!!)

Direct links to retail posted by members is another grey area. If the product isn't readily available in Australia then I can't see a problem with such a post. But I think it is inappropriate to post a link to a direct competitor of Rock Hardware.

There is a lot of grey in this arguement rather than just black and white. But if some moderation is neccessary to keep this site online I will support it.

2:42:41 PM
The word 'minefield' comes to mind....

There is a long and sordid history of previous problems involved with retail outlets and sponsored
climbers. Sadly, after repeated warnings some people just don't seem to understand we can't have an
open slather policy regarding advertising. In my opinion this forum will be worse off if everyone can start
posting 'pay for comment' style messages.

2:49:04 PM
nmonteith wrote
>We act quickly and swiftly (snip!!)
Defiantly !!
... hehehe
2:50:43 PM
Hex, stop logging in as M8!!

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 75
There are 75 messages in this topic.


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