Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author

Ukrainian cams?


Paulie

15-Aug-2007
5:44:06 PM

On 15/08/2007 patto wrote:
>On 14/08/2007 wallwombat wrote:
>>Kezza - Didn't you read the quote from the American guy who pull tested
>> one of the cams to 16.7 kn before it broke. That's 111% of it's rated
>>strength. Thats a lot!
>>
>>I may have a fat arse but I think they a probably strong enough to hold
>>it!

The issue I found with these cams is not strength, they're plenty strong enough, it's ease of placing the bloody things, they're horrible!

I fell on one (#1 from memory) on a Buffalo crack route and it held just fine...pity placing the damn thing was so time consuming which was what got me pumped in the 1st place...on the same crack route a #1 camalot goes in 1st time every time with no bumbling around and no pump (well, maybe just a little ;) ).

Forget the price diff, buy camalots coz if you're using these as back up cams then you've run out of your 'good' cams and are prolly desperate and pumped and scared and the last thing you want when you're pumped, scared and desperate is gear that's difficult to use.

Paul


GravityHound

15-Aug-2007
5:50:55 PM

Have a look here.

http://www.bdel.com/scene/beta/qc_kp_archive.php#112906

Thus guys round up

- Climbing is a serious game—buy your equipment from reputable manufacturers. Be careful of knock-offs and small-time garage-shop gear. I’m not saying that there can’t be good small-shop gear out there—but in most cases these companies don’t go through the certification processes and have the quality systems in place in order to ensure repeatable manufacturing processes and that the gear they are producing consistently meets its intended ratings.

This is his background
- Kolin Powick (KP) is a Mechanical Engineer hailing from Calgary, Canada. He has over 15 years of experience in the enginering field and has been Black Diamond's Quality Assurance Manager since 2002. Kolin oversees the testing of all of Black Diamond's gear from the prototype phase through continual final production random sample testing.

I know who I would listen to. Perhaps he has an alterior motive that is people keep buying more expensive certified gear, but perhaps he doesnt have an alterior motive..........


wallwombat

15-Aug-2007
6:09:53 PM

There is a lot of quality gear that doesn't see these sunny shores, Neil.

The Scientific Certification Center Standart, Kiev, UKRAINE does exist. I just read a extract from a document titled, 'Strength and failure of synthetic webbing of unitizing sling assemblies in the initial state and after overloading' which was conducted in conjunction with the French National Centre for Scientific Research.

But they are both probably just fronts for a couple of dodgy ethnic crims flogging dangerous substandard climbing gear out of the boot of a clapped out Renault!

Anyone can fake a web site or two.


wallwombat

15-Aug-2007
6:20:09 PM

These are not the same cams.

It's like saying don't buy any American cams because CCH made dodgy Aliens.

And Paulie, the cams you bought 12 years ago are also not the same cams.

dalai

16-Aug-2007
10:49:56 AM

On 15/08/2007 wallwombat wrote:
>But they are both probably just fronts for a couple of dodgy ethnic crims
>flogging dangerous substandard climbing gear out of the boot of a clapped
>out Renault!

It's not a Renault, it is a ZAZ Tavria which come clapped out straight of the Ukranian factory... ;-)


M10iswhereitsat.

18-Aug-2007
5:05:43 PM

Ura cynical farcca , dalai ...


Paulie

19-Aug-2007
9:38:28 AM

On 15/08/2007 wallwombat wrote:
>These are not the same cams.
>
>It's like saying don't buy any American cams because CCH made dodgy Aliens.
>
>And Paulie, the cams you bought 12 years ago are also not the same cams.

Very true, maybe they've changed, however my realisations of placing hard to use gear when you've run out of good gear is also very true!!!

Paul


Diablo

22-Aug-2007
7:05:45 PM

On 15/08/2007 kezza wrote:
>Well go ahead and buy your crazy Ukranian cams.
>They are cheap yes, but how long are they going to last? How much is your
>life worth? Is it really worth buying cheap cams that have zero quality
>control? I would much rather buy from a reputable company...
>
>Plus what happened to buying from local stores to keep them running? I'm
>sure I've argued this point before..
>

yeah , what ever happened to buying from the local market, ey. some ppl dont have to worry, some ppl pay -20% wholesale on all their gear.... some of us would Love a cheaper alternative....


M10iswhereitsat.

22-Aug-2007
7:10:31 PM

On 22/08/2007 Diablo wrote:
>On 15/08/2007 kezza wrote:
>>Well go ahead and buy your crazy Ukranian cams.
>>They are cheap yes, but how long are they going to last? How much is
>your
>>life worth? Is it really worth buying cheap cams that have zero quality
>>control? I would much rather buy from a reputable company...
>>
>>Plus what happened to buying from local stores to keep them running?
>I'm
>>sure I've argued this point before..
>>
>
>yeah kezza, what ever happened to buying from the local market, ey. you
>dont have to worry, you pay -20% wholesale on all your gear.... some of
>us would Love a cheaper alternative....

Dosent HB still make this shit, cheap in his tool shed ??

Kezza ? Diablo ? JANIS FACE !!!! :O


Diablo

26-Aug-2007
12:04:43 AM

i have been in contact with the Ukranian Climbing gear company, gear4rocks, and they have sent me this message re the cams:

" Dear climberfreak87,

Hi, currently our gear have just Ukrainain tests and certifications. We check and Ukrainain certification exceed UIAA requirements. Anyway, now we negotiation regarding receiving UIAA and CE PPE safety labels and certificates, so we sure that we got UIAA and CE PPE approved soon. Each cam got a quality control by loading to half of stated max load, also one from 100 cams got destructive test. Also huge debates not only in Aus but in USA and UK, some persons from USA do their own destructive tests and has been satisfied with the results you can find this info in the internet, also UK persons do the same and always has been not disappointed, the issue is UIAA and CE PPE certification only, as soon as we got them we expect huge orders worldwide. If you unsure regarding trust or not this cams you can check our feedback, also you can buy them and test by youself. Thank you for your questions and please feel free to contact us if you will have any more questions. Have a nice day! gear4rocks.

- gear4rocks "

sounds pretty good, will be interesting if they get approved ey?


JBM

26-Aug-2007
11:01:29 PM

Right. So who out there is actually climbing on these puppies?

I could see getting a set for novelty/collectors value, but would you be reaching for one of these things as your first piece?

Someone post a picture of themselves climbing something hard and placing one of these babies.

I can't believe that even Australians are so cheap that they would be leaving the ground with nothing but a set of Ukrainian cams (or Russian Titanium Ice Screws, or Russian Swaged Nuts) on their rack...

...That said, this is the country that invented "adventure bolted" sport climbs and the dreaded "carrot".

Let's see someone put their money where there proverbial "ass " is, since that's what is on the line if one of these things fail....


wallwombat

26-Aug-2007
11:21:08 PM

Mine should arrive next week, man-of-a-thousand-rucksacks. I'll keep you informed.


oweng

27-Aug-2007
8:58:57 AM

All the people going on about the lack of certification, you might do well to remember that RP's have no certification, and were historically (and maybe still are?) made in some guys back yard. HB hand made his own cams, and alot of people used them for alot of years.

For some people the cheap price will make these cams a great buy.


nmonteith

28-Aug-2007
9:41:13 AM

Aliens had/have no certification either!


wallwombat

28-Aug-2007
11:30:07 AM

and Aliens have failed, with unpleasant consequences!


nmonteith

28-Aug-2007
11:36:06 AM

On 28/08/2007 wallwombat wrote:
>and Aliens have failed, with unpleasant consequences!

which is why i'd be slightly wary of these ukranian cams...

As others have alluded to previously, when it comes to the crunch and you have a choice on your rack
between a Camalot or a Ukranium cam, chances are, in desperate times, you'll always go for the
Camalot. At a gut instinct you know it will work better. When it comes to climbing, knowign that things
will work is the key to a comfortable and effortless ascent. When you doubt, suddenly you over-grip,
pump out, start to shake and breath harder.

gfdonc

28-Aug-2007
2:05:26 PM

On 28/08/2007 nmonteith wrote:

>, suddenly you over-grip,
>pump out, start to shake and breath harder.

Hum. Seems to happen often. Not sure I can blame my cams for that one. :-)


wallwombat

28-Aug-2007
3:02:48 PM

On 28/08/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>On 28/08/2007 wallwombat wrote:
>As others have alluded to previously, when it comes to the crunch and
>you have a choice on your rack
>between a Camalot or a Ukranium cam,

Are you on some kind of commission from Black Diamond, Neil?

I'm sure that there are a lot of cam manufacturers out there that would be a tad dismayed to find out their product was out of the equation.

I have Camalots on my rack. I also have Technical Friends, HB cams, Forged Friends, Trango cams and a lonely Cassin Cam. They all work and they all work well.

Personally, Forged Friends rigged with a tie-off for horizontal placements are my favourite. They are light and with the tie-off I find they actually work better in horizontal placements

Sure, Camalots have a bit more range but so do Trango Maxcams and those Omega Pacific cams. And if I can buy 2 cams for a bit more than the price of one camalot, then I will, as the way I see it , that is 2 placements rather than one. I would always prefer 2 bits of gear below me than 1 bit with a larger range. That might make me "suddenly over-grip, pump out, start to shake and breath harder". A bit like you when you get that monthly cheque in the mail from Black Diamond


nmonteith

28-Aug-2007
3:14:02 PM

Nah, Black Diamond just pays my yacht mooring fees and the Lambo registration.

For the record i have on my rack - Wild Country Friends (1980s fixed, 1990s flexi, 2000s Zeros), Aliens,
HB Walk-A-Lots, Kong Cams, Camalots, Omega Pacific Link Cams, Trango Tri-Cams and Metoulis Fat
Cams. :-)

I use the term Camalots as a 'generic' as they have pretty much overtaken Friends as the cam of choice
for modern climbers.


nmonteith

28-Aug-2007
3:21:58 PM

....and for the record i've broken (yes - in half!) two Wild Country Flexi Friends and one Alien. Two of
these were during falls and one was by bending it in my hand on the ground.

There are 154 messages in this topic.