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Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Poll Option Votes Graph
Gates the same 16
57% 
Gates opposed 4
14% 
I mix em up 6
21% 
I haven't looked 2
7% 
I'm a boulderer 0
 

Author
Quickdraws: gates opposed or same?
gfdonc
18-Jan-2018
10:00:16 AM
Article about which way the gates should face on a quickdraw:
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/experience-story?&cid=to-oppose-or-not-quickdraw-biners

So what do you do?


Grinder
18-Jan-2018
11:23:20 AM
Some useful information here:

http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_faq.html


IdratherbeclimbingM9
18-Jan-2018
11:24:36 AM
On 18-Jan-2018 Grinder wrote:
>Some useful information here:
>
>http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_faq.html

@ Grinder:
Do you thumb or fan your quickdraw?
;-)

On 18-Jan-2018 gfdonc wrote:
>Article (snip)

The article is a bit of a worry, in its use of wiregate krabs on bolt-plates... & the old chestnut issue of self detachment being exacerbated by same.

>So what do you do?
>
You donít have an option for my method, which starts out as same side, but once the solid (straight) gate bracket clipping krab is placed, then I tip it upside down so that the krab basket is on the bottom.
Yes, I know itís an extra faff factor, and as such I will never onsight high grade climbing due flaming out, but I figure it kind of keeps me fit and makes my (mostly trad based) climbing safer due helping minimise the self detachment issue.

gordoste
18-Jan-2018
12:35:08 PM
On 18-Jan-2018 gfdonc wrote:
>Article about which way the gates should face on a quickdraw:
>http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/experience-story?&cid=to-oppose-or-not-quickdraw-
>iners
>
>So what do you do?
>

I climb with gates opposed, because when you have a reachy bolt that is off to the side, it is much easier to clip by pushing the draw against the ring/hanger to open the draw (vs. reaching past the bolt and pulling it back against the hanger). And if the reachy bolt is off to the side, you will be heading that way. It's a pretty thin rationale. Who knows - perhaps it is just based on one long-ago experience struggling to clip a reachy bolt while facing a ground fall. To be honest, I can't remember.

The unclipping in the video is hella scary, but I noticed that the hanger needs to be practically horizontal. Ring bolts are never like that and neither are most hangers (in fact if anyone falls on them wouldn't they rotate away from that position?). Without doing any experiments, it seems the risk involved in opposing gates is pretty darn low.




Grinder
18-Jan-2018
1:08:51 PM
On 18-Jan-2018 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>@ Grinder:
>Do you thumb or fan your quickdraw?
>;-)

When the gate is towards me, I thumb it.
When the gate is away from me, I fan it.
I don't know if you know what I mean by that, but I think it is strangely analogous.

BTW I thought the chestnut about wiregates and bolt-plates refers to the fact that the wire is so thin that the bolt plate can slip off a carrot. It doesn't matter for fixed hangers does it? What they are demonstrating in the video could happen with a solid gate couldn't it ? If I have missed something please educate me. I know a lot of people only use solid gates now even though they never clip a carrot.

IronCheff
18-Jan-2018
2:51:53 PM
I've been looking for an authoritative source on biner orientation when clipping bolt hangers without success. This is the first I've seen. There's plenty about the rope end biner, face spine towards direction of travel. I place hanger end biner spine towards direction of travel as well for the reason shown in the video. Therefore biners face same on a quickdraw. I've seen many people swear hanger end biner must always face gate to the right regardless of direction of climb.

I would have thought that hanger manufacturers would specify which direction to clip them but as they don't you could assume it does not matter.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
18-Jan-2018
6:39:22 PM
On 18-Jan-2018 Grinder wrote:
>BTW I thought the chestnut about wiregates and bolt-plates refers to the
>fact that the wire is so thin that the bolt plate can slip off a carrot.

Yes, that too; along with skinny-spined krabs.

>It doesn't matter for fixed hangers does it?

Ask me again after you find one of your quickdraws has self detached and slid down your rope!


>What they are demonstrating in the video could happen with a solid gate couldn't it ?
>If I have missed something please educate me.

Both solid gates and wire gates can self detach with unusual circumstances prevailing.
In my opinion wire gate krabs, can move around more easily within brackets and those with a light gate action can open more easily in such circumstances.
I have found that the action of the gate on most wiregates isn't as firm as my old solid-gated krabs.
Additionally some newer version solid gates might well have a lighter action than my relics, but this isn't necessarily a good thing depending on how the krab is being used.


>I know a lot of people only use solid gates now even though they never clip a carrot.


On 18-Jan-2018 IronCheff wrote:
>I've been looking for an authoritative source on biner orientation when
>clipping bolt hangers without success. This is the first I've seen. There's
>plenty about the rope end biner, face spine towards direction of travel. (snip)

For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that this topic has arisen on Chockstone before!


ajfclark
19-Jan-2018
3:59:56 AM
On 18-Jan-2018 IronCheff wrote:
>I've been looking for an authoritative source on biner orientation when clipping bolt hangers without success. This is the first I've seen. There's plenty about the rope end biner, face spine towards direction of travel. I place hanger end biner spine towards direction of travel as well for the reason shown in the video. Therefore biners face same on a quickdraw. I've seen many people swear hanger end biner must always face gate to the right regardless of direction of climb.
>
>I would have thought that hanger manufacturers would specify which direction to clip them but as they don't you could assume it does not matter. I remember reading somewhere ages ago that this is why BD changed from shipping with gates opposed to shipping with them the same way, but that was at least 1 website ago (bdel.com) and I haven't been able to find it for ages. I'm very glad that they have put this back up and extended the article.

It's possible with solid gate carabiners. It's possible with fixed hanger. It's possible with rings.

From a previous thread about the self unclipping quick draw: http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=5&MessageID=4058&Replies=1



I got those pictures from a very old website (1999): http://web.archive.org/web/19990908005419/http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml

Here's some from bolt products:


They go on to design a ring that this is far less likely to happen with:

Jayford4321
19-Jan-2018
7:38:19 AM
Where is the option of it donít really matter an is better than free solo unless Ur belayer iz Qlder an doesnít belay properly?

- Which remindz me of the best self sandbag I ever saw. It was at Kanetoad Point Brisvagus an a punter was extolling tha virtues of lockers on 1st draw off tha deck.
When got to tha 1st clip... couldnt undo tha screwgate due it 2 tight an him sweating 2 much.
Funny as!

ChuckNorris
19-Jan-2018
11:23:53 PM
wasn't there a postal vote or something recently to sort this sort of drivel out?
widewetandslippery
20-Jan-2018
4:59:33 AM
Who has same sexed draws?

Duang Daunk
20-Jan-2018
9:34:28 AM
On 20-Jan-2018 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Who has same sexed draws?

I do bro.
My friend simey did too, until a gerbil attacked some of them and after replacement he now has a mismatched set.
His fashion sense was so offended he gave up roped climbing and became a boulderer instead, or at least I think thatís what he told me as an excuse for his going lame.

There are 12 messages in this topic.

 

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