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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author
Tests show daisy chain tethers stronger than PAS
Dave_S
27-Jan-2016
9:37:24 AM
Drop tests performed by ENSM (French national school of mountain sports) found that daisy chains were more resilient than PAS-style personal anchors in a fall, with the daisy holding a fall factor 1 fall while the PAS failed. They tested with the Black Diamond dyneema daisy chain and the Grivel (PAS-style interconnected loops) dyneema daisy chain.

This is something I've long suspected - that the loop stitching on a traditional daisy would fail progressively, acting as an energy absorber while still leaving the 16kN end to end rating intact, while a PAS will fail as soon as any individual loop fails. That said, they do recommend that a dynamic climbing rope lanyard be used as a rappel tether, rather than a PAS, daisy, or static sling. (They are talking about when anchoring oneself while setting up a rappel, so anchoring yourself with the rope, as is often done at a belay, is not an option.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWKrghSLao


gfdonc
27-Jan-2016
11:56:45 AM
Thanks. Meaning: I'm still sticking with my 7mm (or 8mm when paranoid) cordelette as the principal anchor system.
Apologies if the tone of my comment is lost: the subtext is that I keep being tempted by alternatives such as a PAS and then find: it's an expensive and relatively inflexible solution to a problem that was solved by a simple (and relatively cheap) bit of nylon cord that is more versatile.

Dave_S
27-Jan-2016
12:22:28 PM
Are you using the same cordelette for belay anchors and as a personal tether? As in you might lead a climb, use the cordelette to build an anchor with which to make yourself safe and belay up a second, and then take down that anchor, walk to a rappel station, and use the cordelette to tether yourself in while setting up the rappel?

Sounds like quite a good option, and eliminates the need for a separate, dedicated personal tether. Though I'd guess the length of a cordelette might make it slightly awkward to set up as a tether.
mikllaw
27-Jan-2016
12:39:13 PM
The daisy is better than a PAS in this one specific situation of taking a factor 2 onto a belay, with your body being replaced by a solid 80 kg steel block.
I think the PAS would survive but would give you a very sore back in real life, while the Daisy would be ok and rip a few pockets.
A nylon PAS might do a bit better.
A knotted nylon cord is strong, simple, and versatile.
jdb
27-Jan-2016
4:12:15 PM
On 27/01/2016 gfdonc wrote:
>Thanks. Meaning: I'm still sticking with my 7mm (or 8mm when paranoid)
>cordelette as the principal anchor system.
>Apologies if the tone of my comment is lost: the subtext is that I keep
>being tempted by alternatives such as a PAS and then find: it's an expensive
>and relatively inflexible solution to a problem that was solved by a simple
>(and relatively cheap) bit of nylon cord that is more versatile.
>
OMG, gfdonc opting for a simple and CHEAP option!!

You may have to relinquish your nom de plume of Gear Freak from Doncaster, Steve

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27-Jan-2016
9:36:27 PM
On 27/01/2016 Dave_S wrote:
>That said, they do recommend that a dynamic climbing rope lanyard be used as a rappel tether, rather than a PAS, daisy, or static sling.

... ~> & so the wheel returns full circle; as back in the early 1960's a standard bit of climbing kit often included a 'cows tail', ie a dynamic rope lanyard for tethering oneself with on top-outs / abseils / etc...
;-)
kieranl
27-Jan-2016
10:02:54 PM
The thread should really be titled "Tests show that neither PAS or Daisy are safe to fall on"

They're really travel restrict devices, not fall arrest. They're OK if you realise that limitation but not if you don't.
rightarmbad
27-Jan-2016
10:45:07 PM
With the biggest problem being that those that use them are usually the ones that do not recognise the limitations.

E. Wells
28-Jan-2016
6:25:05 AM
Here we go again.......

There are 9 messages in this topic.

 

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