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Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author

Buying a Trad Rack


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Feb-2014
11:22:03 AM

On 5/02/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>It's not just slings that wear out. Any form of "wire" - either on a nut
>or a cam, will eventually break. Sometimes with a lack of warning. Wires
>get bent backwards and forwards over edges and the steel eventually fatigues
>and fails. This is no a hypothetical situation - I've had it happen with
>wires and cams that were 10+ years old.

This is why some manufacturers sell trigger-wire replacement kits for their cams, and some people specialise / provide a service in fixing cam wires...

Regular inspection of climbing equipment should be a routine practise on the part of the owner/user, as even brand new equipment can receive damage in usage.

Some people keep log books etc for this purpose. I simply give the equipment a once over visual inspection as I pack it into the daypack for its upcoming use. Anything suss I give closer inspection to, and nuts with frayed/broken wire strands get separated out at that time if in fact they were not found earlier when the gear was packed away from previous usage.
~> In fact this is the closest I actually come to the phrase 'second tier', as those items often end up on the 'bodyweight only' portion of my aid rack, as opposed to general usage on my free-climbing rack.

I doubt the failures you have had, did not have warning signs of corrosion, frayed/broken strands etc beforehand, ... and if they didn't and still broke, then I suggest the load they were subjected to exceeded their rated strength.
☺

kieranl

5-Feb-2014
11:41:32 AM

On 5/02/2014 Doug wrote:
>Steve at Rock Hardware has sets of Wallnuts (1-11) on sale for $179 at
>the moment:
>http://www.rockhardware.com.au/Order.asp?Action=Group&MainGroup=Passive%20Protection&Cate
>ory=DMM%20Wallnuts
>Work really well on most rock, and brilliant at Mt Arapiles.
Quite right. I usually carry a set of Rocks and a set of Wallnuts. The Rocks are the first choice for a placement and I try to keep the wallnuts for more funky placements. Why not just carry 2 sets of wallnuts? It's good to be able to leverage subtle differences in the sizes and because I find the wallnuts can be harder to remove which is nicer for my second.

pecheur

5-Feb-2014
12:37:01 PM

On 5/02/2014 kieranl wrote:

>Quite right. I usually carry a set of Rocks and a set of Wallnuts. The
>Rocks are the first choice for a placement and I try to keep the wallnuts
>for more funky placements.

I'm the same, I do find the rocks to feel more secure.

> Why not just carry 2 sets of wallnuts? It's
>good to be able to leverage subtle differences in the sizes and because
>I find the wallnuts can be harder to remove which is nicer for my second.

I find the opposite, it could be purely mental but I think Rocks are harder to remove. That should be caveated with the fact that I'm rubbish at removing gear, I blame having seconded probably less than 20% the amount I've led.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Feb-2014
12:46:04 PM

On 5/02/2014 pecheur wrote:
>I find the opposite, it could be purely mental but I think Rocks are harder
>to remove. That should be caveated with the fact that I'm rubbish at removing
>gear, I blame having seconded probably less than 20% the amount I've led.

If you ever take up roped-solo, or seconding on aid climbs you will get plenty of practice at removing gear... ;-)

The slots on DMM wallnuts can catch on rugosities in granite. It makes them super secure, but also harder to remove depending on how hard they were 'set'...
I like the wallnuts (though I don't own a complete set), as security of placement is more important to me than ease of placement/removal.
Having said that, the versatility of having both Rocks and Wallnuts for an expanded rack is a good point worth considering.

For any interested in history...
Once upon a time, a rack consisted of a range of pitons.
Then it consisted of a set of nuts.
Then it consisted of a set of Hexs.
~> Most people combined the nuts with the Hexs, as it gave more pro opportunities.
... Then cams came along.
If people added the cams to the nuts and Hexs, then they were carrying much more gear than the leaders of old...

~> Somewhere in there, the boldness component was lost...

:-(


Miguel75

5-Feb-2014
1:48:56 PM

On 5/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
> Somewhere in there, the boldness component was lost...
>
>:-(

I feel rope solo climbing in a loincloth and nipple clamps requires a certain level of boldness.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Feb-2014
1:58:33 PM

On 5/02/2014 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 5/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>> Somewhere in there, the boldness component was lost...
>>
>>:-(
>
>I feel rope solo climbing in a loincloth and nipple clamps requires a
>certain level of boldness.

Ok, you win.
Just don't climb with me in that attire, ok , ok?
:-)

kieranl

5-Feb-2014
2:06:06 PM

White Trash

5-Feb-2014
2:32:25 PM

On 5/02/2014 kieranl wrote:
>Are the nipple-clamps used as screamers?

it doesnt matter the answer, as i reckon the scream would be the result anyway.

Wendy

5-Feb-2014
2:49:28 PM

On 4/02/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>Lets have a game. Imagine that you are on a road trip to The Blueys and
>Pt. Perp and wish to climb the trad and mixed classics up to gr20. You
>have as many draws, slings, and bolt plates as required but can only take
>20 pieces of natural gear. Which 20 pieces do you take to climb the ticklist
>below (including belays) with minimal whimpering? Give reasons (routes)
>which inform your choices. No linkcams allowed!
>
>Blueys-
>Spartan, Joseph, Eternity, Carthaginian , Psychopath, Flake Crack, Amen
>Corner, Soloman, Gemini, Clockwork Orange, Interstate 31, Obituary, Telstar,
>Kaladan
>
>Point Perp-
>Over the Yardarm, The Deeps, Little Red Riding Hood, Bad Luck Streak,
>Grey Mist, Man Overboard, Windjammer, Icebird

Really, no one's playing. But I would be setting up a lot of hanging belays if you made me lead those on 20 pieces. Nice of you to confirm my point that big cams are more useful than RPs for Blueys and Pt Perp. There's a few a pt perp I don't know, but f---, what rock there would be good enough to hold an rp anyway? I can't see a single route I would take RPs up and about 8 I would take at least a 4 camalot if not several or something larger.

Playing a similar game at Araps, I don't seem to need RPs an only of these either.

Agamemnon, Muldoon, D Minor, Tannin, Beautiful Possibilities, Mari, Thunder Crack, Morphydd, Euridice, Resignation, Oceanoid, Touchstone, Lamlighter, Christian Crack, Arachnus, Watchtower Crack, Entertainer

I'd definitely take more wires on that selection than the Blue Mtns selection. I could probably give you a piece by piece run down of most of them, but I'm not that bored yet. Something like 1-8 with doubles on 3-7, with .5, .75x2, 1x2, 2 camalots and special piece that varied for each route, ie a 5 or 6 cam for watchtower and purple c3 for thunder crack. I'd probably still have to set up hanging belays in a few of those routes. I did tannin yesterday and had 22 pieces in it and thought I'd been quite reasonable!

My standard rack at the moment is a complete double set of rocks, 2 rps, double set of link cams, blue camalot, green, yellow, grey, red aliens, green and purple c3. You can see why 20 pieces just doesn't cut it.


Duang Daunk

5-Feb-2014
3:10:02 PM

On 5/02/2014 Wendy wrote:
>Playing a similar game at Araps, I don't seem to need RPs an only of these
>either.
>
>Agamemnon, Muldoon, D Minor, Tannin, Beautiful Possibilities, Mari, Thunder
>Crack, Morphydd, Euridice, Resignation, Oceanoid, Touchstone, Lamlighter,
>Christian Crack, Arachnus, Watchtower Crack, Entertainer
>
Wussy

>I'd definitely take more wires on that selection than the Blue Mtns selection.
>I could probably give you a piece by piece run down of most of them, but
>I'm not that bored yet. Something like 1-8 with doubles on 3-7, with .5,
>.75x2, 1x2, 2 camalots and special piece that varied for each route, ie
>a 5 or 6 cam for watchtower and purple c3 for thunder crack. I'd probably
>still have to set up hanging belays in a few of those routes. I did tannin
>yesterday and had 22 pieces in it and thought I'd been quite reasonable!
>
That's wussy too.

>My standard rack at the moment is a complete double set of rocks, 2 rps,
>double set of link cams, blue camalot, green, yellow, grey, red aliens,
>green and purple c3. You can see why 20 pieces just doesn't cut it.
>
2 x RP's? What size?
What is the go?

I thought you were absolutely against RP's for almost all of your climbing??

You are not going against your wussy status now are you?

pecheur

5-Feb-2014
3:25:44 PM

On 5/02/2014 Wendy wrote:
>>Really, no one's playing. But I would be setting up a lot of hanging belays
>if you made me lead those on 20 pieces. Nice of you to confirm my point
>that big cams are more useful than RPs for Blueys and Pt Perp. There's
>a few a pt perp I don't know, but f---, what rock there would be good enough
>to hold an rp anyway? I can't see a single route I would take RPs up and
>about 8 I would take at least a 4 camalot if not several or something larger.

Agreed.
>
>Playing a similar game at Araps, I don't seem to need RPs an only of these
>either.
>
>Agamemnon, Muldoon, D Minor, Tannin, Beautiful Possibilities, Mari, Thunder
>Crack, Morphydd, Euridice, Resignation, Oceanoid, Touchstone, Lamlighter,
>Christian Crack, Arachnus, Watchtower Crack, Entertainer
>
I haven't done all of those but for the ones I have, agreed.

>I'd definitely take more wires on that selection than the Blue Mtns selection.
>I could probably give you a piece by piece run down of most of them, but
>I'm not that bored yet. Something like 1-8 with doubles on 3-7, with .5,
>.75x2, 1x2, 2 camalots and special piece that varied for each route, ie
>a 5 or 6 cam for watchtower and purple c3 for thunder crack. I'd probably
>still have to set up hanging belays in a few of those routes. I did tannin
>yesterday and had 22 pieces in it and thought I'd been quite reasonable!
>
>My standard rack at the moment is a complete double set of rocks, 2 rps,
>double set of link cams, blue camalot, green, yellow, grey, red aliens,
>green and purple c3. You can see why 20 pieces just doesn't cut it.
>
You don't seriously carry doubles in sizes 12-14, or carry them at all? I could accept that if you meant classic rocks.

Wendy

5-Feb-2014
8:20:12 PM

On 5/02/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:

>
>>My standard rack at the moment is a complete double set of rocks, 2 rps,
>>double set of link cams, blue camalot, green, yellow, grey, red aliens,
>>green and purple c3. You can see why 20 pieces just doesn't cut it.
>>
>2 x RP's? What size?
>What is the go?
>
>I thought you were absolutely against RP's for almost all of your climbing??
>
>You are not going against your wussy status now are you?

I have a whole biner worth of micro wires somewhere ... but they come out even less often than my 5 camalot. there's a 2 rp and a mini rock of some size on my small wire rack for emergency use only. I might try and resuscitate someone by tickling them with them, they'd probably get more use then. You are welcome to borrow the rack of rps to do an rp only ascent of any of the routes in that list. Actually placing gear, not soloing with a rack of rps! Otherwise I might have to call you a wuss too.
>
>

Wendy

5-Feb-2014
8:25:53 PM

On 5/02/2014 pecheur wrote:

>>either.
>>
>>Agamemnon, Muldoon, D Minor, Tannin, Beautiful Possibilities, Mari, Thunder
>>Crack, Morphydd, Euridice, Resignation, Oceanoid, Touchstone, Lamlighter,
>>Christian Crack, Arachnus, Watchtower Crack, Entertainer
>>
>I haven't done all of those but for the ones I have, agreed.

Really? You should jump on the rest, they are all bloody great routes.
>

>>
>>My standard rack at the moment is a complete double set of rocks,
>2 rps,
>>double set of link cams, blue camalot, green, yellow, grey, red aliens,
>>green and purple c3. You can see why 20 pieces just doesn't cut it.
>>
>You don't seriously carry doubles in sizes 12-14, or carry them at all?
> I could accept that if you meant classic rocks.

I'm showing my age. I have the new rocks, but I still think in old rock sets. Doubles of 1-9.

pecheur

6-Feb-2014
11:07:18 AM

On 5/02/2014 Wendy wrote:
>
>Really? You should jump on the rest, they are all bloody great routes.
>>
Yep intend to, I don't have many regular partners who can climb safely above about grade 17 outdoors who'd be happy to second me on everything (I like doing stuff onsight).
>
>I'm showing my age. I have the new rocks, but I still think in old rock
>sets. Doubles of 1-9

That makes sense, a friend of mine has size 12-14 rocks and a I can't figure out why you'd bother, in thoses size hexes would be far more useful. I do find my no 10 and 11 wallnuts useful but I don't have hexes that size...

PS I can only think of one classic that I've used an RP size nut on, Kaiser, to protect the traverse.

kieranl

6-Feb-2014
11:20:04 AM

On 5/02/2014 Wendy wrote:
>I have a whole biner worth of micro wires somewhere ... but they come
>out even less often than my 5 camalot. there's a 2 rp and a mini rock of
>some size on my small wire rack for emergency use only.
Funny. I used a 2rp and 1 rock equalised to protect a crux on Saturday. The 5rp below those might have been replaced with a rock but half of it would have been sticking out. It was rather nice to get to the big cam placement above these.

One Day Hero

6-Feb-2014
4:25:09 PM

I like how out of touch Arapiles coddled climbers can be. Sabu gave his standard rack advice for Victorian beginners, the rest of them are now arguing about which brand of nuts works best (at arapiles, of course)!?

I can't imagine the o.p. will be particularly bothered about which brand of wires he owns as he climbs something like Flake Crack (which is a bloody hand and fist crack!)

Wendy

6-Feb-2014
4:32:51 PM

On 6/02/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>I like how out of touch Arapiles coddled climbers can be. Sabu gave his
>standard rack advice for Victorian beginners, the rest of them are now
>arguing about which brand of nuts works best (at arapiles, of course)!?
>
>I can't imagine the o.p. will be particularly bothered about which brand
>of wires he owns as he climbs something like Flake Crack (which is a bloody
>hand and fist crack!)

Now, I freely admit to being an Arapiles coddled baby, but those 2 racks of rocks also got placed in their entirety in Bad Luck Streak. And Eternity. And Janicepts. I do admit to carrying more than a double set of cams up all of those as well though. And placing almost every one of them too.

Dr Nick

6-Feb-2014
4:56:53 PM

Flake Crack definitely takes a couple of medium/large wires on the diagonal bit up to the roof. I've got a niggling suspicion there's a good spot just under the roof as well.

You need a few large pieces for the first bit though!

One Day Hero

6-Feb-2014
5:22:28 PM

On 6/02/2014 Wendy wrote:
>
>those 2 racks
>of rocks also got placed in their entirety in Bad Luck Streak. And Eternity.
>And Janicepts. I do admit to carrying more than a double set of cams up
>all of those as well though. And placing almost every one of them too.

I made sure to include a couple of routes (Grey Mist is another) which suck up wires, just to make the game harder/impossible :)

Sure, you can put lots of wires into the routes you mentioned, but the hard bits on all of those routes are best protected by hand cams.

One Day Hero

6-Feb-2014
5:53:19 PM

On 6/02/2014 Dr Nick wrote:
>Flake Crack definitely takes a couple of medium/large wires on the diagonal
>bit up to the roof. I've got a niggling suspicion there's a good spot just
>under the roof as well.
>
>You need a few large pieces for the first bit though!

Yeah great, so you're saying you place a couple of wires on the easy bit in the middle, and a double set of hand and fist cams in the harder bits at the top and bottom......thanks for the vital clarification.

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