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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 42
Author
Petzl Roc Pec Hand Drill
tshaw
25/07/2013
5:26:28 PM
Just wondering if anyone has used the petzl hand drill on granite?

Is there anything that is better in the hand drill department?

Macciza
25/07/2013
5:34:12 PM
Have not used mine on granite but it sure beats my previous home-made job in actual usage . . .
Not sure of anything better . . .

E. Wells
25/07/2013
5:40:07 PM
A Bosch? Should get a small hole in a solid non stop callous rendering half an hour with roc pec though if you work really hard and make lots of vaginal references, not sure if its worth the raynauds syndrome.
tshaw
25/07/2013
5:49:01 PM
On 25/07/2013 E. Wells wrote:
>A Bosch? Should get a small hole in a solid non stop callous rendering
>half an hour with roc pec though if you work really hard and make lots
>of vaginal references, not sure if its worth the raynauds syndrome.

hahahaha, was waiting for someone to recommend a power drill.

was thinking of an alternative to a power drill as the crag requires a fair few days of work with a bit of a hike in.

ajfclark
Online Now
25/07/2013
5:55:26 PM
Petrol drill then.
dalai
25/07/2013
6:36:29 PM
On 25/07/2013 ajfclark wrote:
>Petrol drill then.



Now we are talking... ;-)
MichaelOR
25/07/2013
8:11:06 PM
Our 'beast' does the job every time - unlimited holes! Just a 'wee bit' heavier to lug in and use!
And you have to be really careful to keep it clear of ropes and all climbing gear at all times (petrol and heat) whilst dangling off a rope drilling. We've now got a dedicated pack just used for 'the beast'. Rock, Paper, Scissors to see who gets to carry it!
Hand drilling .... now there's something I'd never considered on steep Grampians rock! Let us know how it goes.
f_abe
25/07/2013
8:28:29 PM
another vote for petrol rotaries - $209 off ebay (including postage), and apart from a slight translation problem with the instructions (i.e. if you're chinese they're probably great), I can't fault it (just make sure you don't use a lithium ion nancy drill first so you have nothing to compare it to and you'll be happy as)

to get off topic, has the effect of petrol on ropes ever been proven (as opposed to hearsay, informed comment, fear of liability or just personal opinion)? I had a mate who refused to put his rope in the boot of my car cos I kept a 5L jerry can of fuel in there, yet my rope never snapped. I also had a 'rope wrap around a leaky* drill' incident with a rope (no, not yours Kieran!) yet it still held my falls...just wondering.
* whadya expect for $209???

Macciza
25/07/2013
11:10:40 PM
Wow - what a knowledgeful bunch of hand-drillers we have here . . .

Any suggestions for 'Ground-up Bolting'? Let me guess - rap in and bolt as you go back up?
Or maybe some advice about Prussik sizes and lengths for ascending ? Hmm, Ascender and GriGri ?
Er, yeah, right - thanks guys .. . . .

@OP - The RocPec is fine - maybe try the 'star' ended drills rather then the usual two-sided ones . . .

Actually you could also try a masonry Star-drill, but they generally don't have the same mass and handle-ability that the RP has, ymmv . . .

Cheers
Long Live the HandDrill!
tshaw
26/07/2013
8:08:17 AM
petrol drill looks good(heavy tho) for short routes but looking at hand drills as the routes are quite long and will be ground up bolting.

cheers for the help Macciza. Will look into star-drill




IdratherbeclimbingM9
26/07/2013
9:39:37 AM
On 25/07/2013 tshaw wrote:
>Just wondering if anyone has used the petzl hand drill on granite?
>
>Is there anything that is better in the hand drill department?

The abundant powered drill responses to a hand drill question probably reflects the way climbing has gone in the last 10 to 15 years...


The star drills that Macciza refers to, are very light and have no hand protection. They are effectively a long drill bit made from octagonal rod, that can be held in your hand and of quality stock that can be hit with a lump-hammer to drive it.
The 'X' tip on them is quite effective compared to the 'I' tip of standard drill bits, when it come to hand drilling.

I have found the best combination is to make up (or get made up at your local engineering workshop), a hand piece out of hex-rod that takes a modified star-drill. You can get a cheap rubber flange to put on the hex-rod as added hand protection if needed.
The advantages of the made up holder are that it is easier to hold and can be hit a lot harder due having a larger base (approx 20mm vs about 6mm). The insert portion of the star drill needs to be lathed back to round and taper matched to the hole in the holder.
Due having a star-bit, it only requires a quarter turn each strike instead of a half turn required with normal bits, which is easier on the wrist and less tangle for any retaining lanyard.

If you go down this track, don't forget to get a drift pin also made of tempered steel, as removing the star-bit from the holder will require a couple of decent whacks on the drift pin, and mild steel simply deforms without budging the bit!

Good quality star-drills used to be English or Australian made. This is important for retaining the cutting edge of the star, as well as taking the hits on the shank base if used without a holder. I have no idea if the likely Chinese equivalents have the staying power of the older models...

Also make sure that the bolts you use match the hole made by the star-drill, as the size of modern star-drills may not match the 3/8th bolts of old?



>hand drill on granite?
>the crag requires a fair few days of work with a bit of a hike in.
>looking at hand drills as the routes are quite long and will be ground up bolting.

The granite you want to drill wouldn't be at Mt Buffalo or it's back blocks would it?
tshaw
26/07/2013
10:36:23 AM
On 26/07/2013 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 25/07/2013 tshaw wrote:
>>Just wondering if anyone has used the petzl hand drill on granite?
>>
>>Is there anything that is better in the hand drill department?
>
>The abundant powered drill responses to a hand drill question probably
>reflects the way climbing has gone in the last 10 to 15 years...
>☻
>
>The star drills that Macciza refers to, are very light and have no hand
>protection. They are effectively a long drill bit made from octagonal rod,
>that can be held in your hand and of quality stock that can be hit with
>a lump-hammer to drive it.
>The 'X' tip on them is quite effective compared to the 'I' tip of standard
>drill bits, when it come to hand drilling.
>
>I have found the best combination is to make up (or get made up at your
>local engineering workshop), a hand piece out of hex-rod that takes a modified
>star-drill. You can get a cheap rubber flange to put on the hex-rod as
>added hand protection if needed.
>The advantages of the made up holder are that it is easier to hold and
>can be hit a lot harder due having a larger base (approx 20mm vs about
>6mm). The insert portion of the star drill needs to be lathed back to round
>and taper matched to the hole in the holder.
>Due having a star-bit, it only requires a quarter turn each strike instead
>of a half turn required with normal bits, which is easier on the wrist
>and less tangle for any retaining lanyard.
>
>If you go down this track, don't forget to get a drift pin also made of
>tempered steel, as removing the star-bit from the holder will require a
>couple of decent whacks on the drift pin, and mild steel simply deforms
>without budging the bit!
>
>Good quality star-drills used to be English or Australian made. This is
>important for retaining the cutting edge of the star, as well as taking
>the hits on the shank base if used without a holder. I have no idea if
>the likely Chinese equivalents have the staying power of the older models...
>
>Also make sure that the bolts you use match the hole made by the star-drill,
>as the size of modern star-drills may not match the 3/8th bolts
>of old?
>
>
>
>>hand drill on granite?
>>the crag requires a fair few days of work with a bit of a hike in.
>>looking at hand drills as the routes are quite long and will be ground
>up bolting.
>
>The granite you want to drill wouldn't be at Mt Buffalo or it's back blocks
>would it?

Cheers M9,that is some great info. Definitely going to look into the custom made option. Sounds like it will be a bit more effective than the petzl.

and yes drilling will occur at Buffalo. Thinking The Horn needs some more work. Nah looking at Nug Nug and Nth slabs, Mt Mcleod area. Keen for some of the bigger cliffs in the area.
dalai
26/07/2013
11:01:15 AM
On 26/07/2013 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>The abundant powered drill responses to a hand drill question probably
>reflects the way climbing has gone in the last 10 to 15 years...

Having drilled enough bolts by hand I'd rather not place a bolt then go through that trauma again! Was a holder and bits bought from Keables in Melbourne.

Didn't have a holster so did have to abseil and search through the undergrowth on a few occasions. Lent it to someone a long time ago. Can't remember who and not fussed I never got it back!

Having placed enough carrots in those early years, I know how little of the bolt may be under the surface. I also replaced a few placed by others and know how average many of those old carrots can be. Because of this I've been recently thinking I'll go back out to as many of my routes I used carrots on as possible and rebolting them!
tris
26/07/2013
11:22:34 AM
I have used a fixe hand drill a bit and found it pretty good. To begin with the going is slow, but as you get used to the style of drilling the speed picks up.

I still would not try and do too many bolts in a day though as you would probably wreck your hand.

tris
26/07/2013
12:15:32 PM
Also, just found this. Not really related, but there are some interesting drill's.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2190293/3-8-SDS-drills-faster-than-1-4-SDS

IdratherbeclimbingM9
26/07/2013
12:30:42 PM
On 26/07/2013 tris wrote:
>Also, just found this. Not really related, but there are some interesting drill's.
>
>http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2190293/3-8-SDS-drills-faster-than-1-4-SDS

I found this bit of info more interesting;
>2.5" x 3/8" hole takes 623 whacks
... in hard granite.

Yeah, takes about 20 mins per hole, but I would have thought it'd be less whacks, though I have never bothered counting them.

It was also interesting he used the neoprene-rubber pipe insulation as a holder-cushion. I imagine if a second smaller length was placed over the top of the first bit at the whacking end, it would also make a cheap hand protector for the odd miss-hit.
kieranl
26/07/2013
5:03:49 PM
Hand-drilling at Buffalo is cruel and unusual punishment - doing it on lead would be torture. I've used both the old sebco holder and bits and a modern SDS holder - I forget the brand - at Buffalo. The modern one beats the sebco one hands-down. I haven't used the Petzl but it has the relevant features : SDS, some hand protection, leash that lets the drill rotate.
I would have thought one of the modern lightweight power-drills would be a feasible option. Neils panasonic(?) that I saw last year was way lighter than my de walt.
After drilling a bolt you should be able to hang the drill on it with a fifi and tag it up when you're ready to drill the next one. I think Mikl used this technique or something similar on the original routes at The Elephant's Hide in the Grampians.
The energy used to drag it in should be far less than you'll expend on the 20 minutes plus hand-drilling each bolt.
tshaw
27/07/2013
7:38:55 AM
On 26/07/2013 kieranl wrote:

>The energy used to drag it in should be far less than you'll expend on
>the 20 minutes plus hand-drilling each bolt.

Interesting.

Just wondering how many holes you would get using one of the light weight drills you mentioned per battery? As I would be camping out there for a fair few days I would not have the option of recharging batteries. Maybe a combo of power and hand drill would be the best option.
mikllaw
27/07/2013
8:53:30 AM
I didnt find a star drill any faster than a std bit when hand drilling.
Heavy hammer and light chuck (the bit holding the drill) gives the max impact per blow.
Definately check your sizing of drilled hole (they are bigger when you are a 'novice', and get smaller as the drill wears), and are very affected by rock type. Have a range of 'grinds' on your carrots to suit. Practice first on a convenient granite building.
The Bosch gets about 30 carrot holes per battery
kieranl
28/07/2013
9:41:33 PM
On 27/07/2013 tshaw wrote:
>On 26/07/2013 kieranl wrote:
>
>>The energy used to drag it in should be far less than you'll expend on
>>the 20 minutes plus hand-drilling each bolt.
>
>Interesting.
>
>Just wondering how many holes you would get using one of the light weight
>drills you mentioned per battery?
I found this in a post from Neil earlier this year :
>>To put it into perspective my Panasonic 28v drill would polish off a 12mmx90mm
>> hole in hard granite in about 5 seconds. It would also do 20+ holes per battery
>>(or 50+ in the Bluies!). So you certainly do get what you paid for!

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 42
There are 42 messages in this topic.

 

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