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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 21
Author
Question about abseiling with double ropes

Pat
23/02/2013
10:05:19 AM
Planning on getting double ropes and wondered if anyone had experience belaying and descending using double ropes as thin as 7.5 to 8.5mm on sticht plates that have the 9mm slots?

Is 7.5 too thin for 9mm slots? I know it seems like a redundant question, but I am wondering if anyone has actual experience in using this set up successfully (or otherwise!).

ajfclark
Online Now
23/02/2013
10:29:49 AM
I know egosan has issues with his skinny doubles and standard size tube style belay devices. His shoelaces are 7.2mm or something ridiculous. I use 8.5mm ropes and I've never had an issue with them and standard sized tube style belay devices. I haven't taken loads of falls on them though; maybe half a dozenin the last year?

I suspect the length of the slot has more impact than the width as that would appear to be what determines the severity of the bend in the rope and the bends are what causes the friction.

Have a read of Jim's belay device theory at the bottom of this page: http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm

Eduardo Slabofvic
23/02/2013
12:05:06 PM
I use an old sticht plate and I do find that the 8.5s make me work a bit harder if I have to hold someone on one rope only. With both ropes its a bit easier.

Try putting another biner through the bight when descending as this might reduce the grabbyness of it, but I find they do run pretty fast. Its controllable, but you just have to work a bit harder.

I use an 8.5 paired with a 9 this works fine in the sticht plate. Double 9s, which I first learnt to belay on with this same device is pretty good.

I would probably prefer to use Egosans 7.2s for dental floss

The good Dr
23/02/2013
12:20:33 PM
As Edwardo said you work a bit harder. In reality you are better off purchasing a newer belay device like a Petzl Reverso or a BD ATC guide or similar.

Macciza
23/02/2013
12:45:58 PM
Bottomline - get a device with smaller slots meant for smaller ropes (ie<+9mm)! 10mm works in a device that handles 13mm . . .
Don't just get a newer device - unless it is meant for such small ropes . .
I have a smaller device I use with 9's in critical circumstances - the difference is quite tangible (compared to a 'normal' device). . . .
mikllaw
23/02/2013
1:31:49 PM
As mentioned early, add a biner or two rapping. This seems messy when belaying so a good option is to find a really fat screwgate biner, and maybe add belay gloves.

Part of the reason that gear stays in with doubles that would fail instantly on a single is that when the gear weights one rope, there is a lot of rope slip, therefore lower forces on the gear.
Damo666
23/02/2013
1:54:37 PM
I use twin Mammut 8mm (or so), for ice and alpine. I've never had a problem, but they're better in some devices than others.

- the slots on my original (non-Guide) ATC are around 15mm wide
- the slots on a Petzl Reversino are around 10-11mm wide (sides not parallel)
- the slots on my DMM Bugette are around 12mm wide at narrowest point
- the slots on my Trango Jaws are around 18mm wide in the middle

I often use the Jaws because despite the wide slot, the deeply notched side makes holding any rope pretty easy, so the design overrules the slots. The Bugette is probably the smallest and simplest double-rope device around. If you want more versatility and are concerned about holding power then the Rerversino is probably best.
Damo666
23/02/2013
2:02:02 PM
Should add:
I mainly use the Bugette for general alpine climbing and glacier travel, cos it's so light and where belaying will be minimal. I use the Jaws if I will be belaying more, or if there is a chance I would have to hold a fall during pitched climbing. But I plan to start using the Reversino more as it should be better for belaying directly off the anchor.

Pat
23/02/2013
4:24:21 PM
Thanks for comments so far. To clarify a little. I have a DMM V twin and an ATC guide. These are for my wife and I. So I plan to be belayed with these for leading, but I have a couple of sticht plates for the kids who both weigh around the 50 kg mark and was wondering if they would have the needed speed control for descending only. We will climb with a 10.5 as well, so it is always an option to match that up with a skinny rope for the double rope raps.
Mr Poopypants
23/02/2013
4:47:08 PM
Hi Pat

I used 8mm doubles for years. Belaying with an ATC seems fine, I used them with the old ones but the new ones should be better.
Rapping was a bit unnerving. Could get difficult to hold. Used to just slip a biner onto my leg loop and clip it through that for a bit extra friction. They also used to stretch a looooot.
Made me choose fatter ones next time. Good for the mountains, though. Really light and easy to pack.

Cheers
G.
One Day Hero
23/02/2013
6:36:03 PM
Unless you're going somewhere "extreme", I'd advise against getting shoelaces. I've got mammut's 8.5's which weigh about a kilo more (for two ropes) than the really skinny ones. Way easier to catch falls, and it makes things less dodgy when you're climbing in threes. Seconding on a single strand of 7.8mm seems unnecessarily dangerous!
Mr Poopypants
23/02/2013
8:41:05 PM
Sorry Pat, didn't see the part about your kids using them. I have 2 kids and definitely would not let them use 8s. Wayy too easy to stuff up. Kids are kids.
Go the fat boy rope (That's actually what one of mine is called, and not just by my "friends") with the kids. And get them new ATCs or similar, while you're at it. They're expensive to replace.

G.

Pat
23/02/2013
11:03:37 PM
Glenn,

do you mean figure 8's or 8mm ropes?
Mr Poopypants
23/02/2013
11:38:12 PM
8mm ropes. I used them for stuff in Nepal and NZ but they doubled on rock here when we needed doubles. We were always really careful with them, so no real problems handling the rapping speed etc, but did have to watch it a bit. I wouldn't let beginners or kids use them. I often found myself wrapping the rope around my back or sticking a biner in my leg loop with them. On freehanging raps found myself wrapping a twisted knot around the biner on the leg loop, too. Could be quite hard to stop once you got going. (This was with the old tube style ATC, sticht plates wouldn't be great, either.)
I always get the kids I teach to buy ATC XPs or something similar (with the notches) for belaying. The notches seem to grab a bit better and they don't get their hands dragged into them like the original ATCs. Even teenagers seem to have trouble coordinating holding the rope, locking it off etc. without getting their hands pulled up into the device.

The 8mms really were skinny and stretchy. Ended up giving them to Pam's dad to use for teaching splicing and got some double 9s for rock, but I'd use at least 10s with kids.

Gotta be happy when you start talking about needing doubles with your kids!

Cheers

G.

egosan
24/02/2013
10:27:46 AM
the atc, the atc guide and all the newer reversos are rated to 7.5mm. Which is what 90% of people climb with. When climbing with my 7.8mm ropes, I toss a spare reversino in my bag incase my partner has an old stitch plate. They don't make the reversino anymore. They are tiny and super light.
Wollemi
24/02/2013
11:39:25 AM
On 23/02/2013 Mr Poopypants wrote:
>I often found myself
>wrapping the rope around my back or sticking a biner in my leg loop with
>them. On freehanging raps found myself wrapping a twisted knot around the
>biner on the leg loop, too. Could be quite hard to stop once you got going.
>(This was with the old tube style ATC, sticht plates wouldn't be great,
>either.)
>

Twisted knot = munter hitch ?
singersmith
24/02/2013
11:50:24 AM
When the Huber's were doing Golden Gate they were leading on a single 8.8 and casually taking repeat 70 footers off the headwall. "Yah, you know you can fall on just the sheath of the rope so we think its great!"

Uh, no thanks.
Mr Poopypants
24/02/2013
1:39:14 PM
On 24/02/2013 Wollemi wrote:
>On 23/02/2013 Mr Poopypants wrote:
>>I often found myself
>>wrapping the rope around my back or sticking a biner in my leg loop with
>>them. On freehanging raps found myself wrapping a twisted knot around
>the
>>biner on the leg loop, too. Could be quite hard to stop once you got
>going.
>>(This was with the old tube style ATC, sticht plates wouldn't be great,
>>either.)
>>
>
>Twisted knot = munter hitch ?

Nope. Just wrap the rope around the spine of the biner a few times to create friction. Sorry, one of the ways I learned to abseil when I was a kid. Twists the rope up but handy if you're in a hurry (and back then, if you didn't have a piton or spare biner handy)
Works pretty well, lots of friction, easy to control.
I'm not as old as some! :-)
G.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/02/2013
3:50:38 PM
On 24/02/2013 Mr Poopypants wrote:
>On 24/02/2013 Wollemi wrote:
>>Twisted knot = munter hitch ?
>
>Nope. Just wrap the rope around the spine of the biner a few times to
>create friction. (snip)
>I'm not as old as some! :-)

~> but you got it right nevertheless!
;-)



I agree with mikl's post above.





On 23/02/2013 Edward Oslabofvic wrote:
>I use an old sticht plate and I do find that the 8.5s make me work a bit
>harder if I have to hold someone on one rope only. With both ropes its
>a bit easier.
>
>Try putting another biner through the bight when descending as this might
>reduce the grabbyness of it, but I find they do run pretty fast. Its controllable,
>but you just have to work a bit harder.
>
>I use an 8.5 paired with a 9 this works fine in the sticht plate. Double
>9s, which I first learnt to belay on with this same device is pretty good.
>
>I would probably prefer to use Egosans 7.2s for dental floss

I have abseiled on thin (read rubbish thin laid nylon ropes) doubles using a 9 mm sticht plate. They work, but work better if a half twist is incorporated, preferably around an additional krab introduced into the system rather than a wrap around one's leg! ... Though the latter still works in a pinch.
~> Pretty soon, youaregunnaqualify for the old farts club when you make posts like ...
>I use an old sticht plate
Heh, heh, heh.

Pat
24/02/2013
5:16:28 PM
Have changed the topic title slightly. Realised the thread was a little side tracked and wondering why until I looked at my title. More interested in what super thins are like to descend on with the sticht. Thanks for input so far.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 21
There are 21 messages in this topic.

 

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