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Chalk - is it useful?

prb

24-Dec-2012
3:30:40 PM

"water had no significant effect on the coefficient of friction" in the PubMed paper above will be good news for Blue Mountains climbers, etc.

I think chalk use is 1% physiological and 99% psychological; I use it.

We humans are lucky to be covered in eccrine sweat glands because they cool the body very efficiently which allows us to have a large and active brain. Hence we can develop concepts like leisure activity -> rockclimbing.

One Day Hero

25-Dec-2012
3:43:22 PM

On 24/12/2012 TonyB wrote:
>>I generally wipe my hands on my shorts most of the time...
>
>Sounds like a reasonable idea. Chalk decreases friction: "alternative
>methods for drying the fingers are preferable." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1141178

I was going to let this slide, owing to the festive season and all........but sitting here stuffed with turkey and pudding, I can't think of anything more productive to do than have a merry old christmas chocky spray.

Tony, I think you might be the stupidest person on this forum (and that's no mean feat!)

Chalk makes climbing harder, but water doesn't? Fuch me, this is dumber than all your other shit combined!

Merry xmas, fuchers

TonyB

25-Dec-2012
8:26:10 PM

On 25/12/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Chalk makes climbing harder, but water doesn't?

You really are a pathetic dope, incapable of reading aren't you ! A kindergarten drop out. Get your mommy to read the bloody thing to you, fucher.

For others who are capable of reading, the authors of the paper, Li FX, Margetts S, Fowler I (not me) claim:
"... Finally, water had no significant effect on the coefficient of friction. The counter-intuitive effect of chalk appears to be caused by two independent factors. First, magnesium carbonate dries the skin, decreasing its compliance and hence reducing the coefficient of friction. Secondly, magnesium carbonate creates a slippery granular layer. We conclude that, to improve the coefficient of friction in rock climbing, an effort should be made to remove all particles of chalk; alternative methods for drying the fingers are preferable."

Merry Christmas.

Jim Titt

25-Dec-2012
9:42:40 PM

Once you get past kindergarten you´ll find that the first thing you read or were told may not actually be true, for example Father Christmas may not exist despite what you learnt at that formative age.

Extending your reading horizons you´ll find further scientific reasearch on the matter performed to a considerably higher level such as;-

"The effect of chalk on the finger-hold friction coefficient in rock climbing"

Authors: Amca, Arif Mithat1; Vigouroux, Laurent2; Aritan, Serdar1; Berton, Eric2

Source: Sports Biomechanics, Volume 11, Number 4, 1 November 2012 , pp. 473-479(7)

Abstract:
The main purpose of this study was to examine the effect of chalk on the friction coefficient between climber's fingers and two different rock types (sandstone and limestone). The secondary purpose was to investigate the effects of humidity and temperature on the friction coefficient and on the influence of chalk. Eleven experienced climbers took part in this study and 42 test sessions were performed. Participants hung from holds which were fixed on a specially designed hang board. The inclination of the hang board was progressively increased until the climber's hand slipped from the holds. The angle of the hang board was simultaneously recorded by using a gyroscopic sensor and the friction coefficient was calculated at the moment of slip. The results showed that there was a significant positive effect of chalk on the coefficient of friction (+18.7% on limestone and +21.6% on sandstone). Moreover sandstone had a higher coefficient of friction than limestone (+15.6% without chalk, +18.4% with chalk). These results confirmed climbers' belief that chalk enhances friction. However, no correlation with humidity/temperature and friction coefficient was noted which suggested that additional parameters should be considered in order to understand the effects of climate on finger friction in rock climbing.

Or
"Instrumented Climbing Holds and the Dynamics of Sport Climbing" by Fuss/Niegl published in Engineering of sport 6 Vol 1

Which comes to essentially the same conclusion with an increase in friction of 32% with loose chalk and a decrease in friction of 8% with wet hands on artificial holds.

Both of which coincide with the experience of millions of climbers worldwide.

Merry Christmas to you too!

TonyB

26-Dec-2012
8:14:49 AM

Thanks Jim. Just found that one and was about to post it. It is interesting that they found "no correlation with humidity/temperature and friction coefficient".

Chockstone Moderator

26-Dec-2012
10:02:33 PM

On 25/12/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 24/12/2012 TonyB wrote:
>>>I generally wipe my hands on my shorts most of the time...
>>
>>Sounds like a reasonable idea. Chalk decreases friction: "alternative
>>methods for drying the fingers are preferable." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1141178
>
>I was going to let this slide, owing to the festive season and all........but
>sitting here stuffed with turkey and pudding, I can't think of anything
>more productive to do than have a merry old christmas chocky spray.
>
>Tony, I think you might be the stupidest person on this forum (and that's
>no mean feat!)
>
>Chalk makes climbing harder, but water doesn't? Fuch me, this is dumber
>than all your other shit combined!
>
>Merry xmas, fuchers

Full of Christmas cheer are we ODH?

Here is a Christmas present from me to you, of two weeks time-out for personal abuse of another forum member. Have a safe holiday, and maybe make some new resolutions for 2013 posting on Chockstone while you are at it.

(And although provoked TonyB, please refrain from retaliating in kind).

widewetandslippery

26-Dec-2012
11:16:07 PM

chocky mod lame response.

I know odh,

I have met tonyb.

Both good blokes and calling someone an idiot should'nt be a. Hanging offence. [Personal abuse edited out by Chockstone Moderator.]

Will_P

28-Dec-2012
11:18:22 AM

ODH gets a two week suspension for calling someone an idiot, but WWS gets nothing for saying [Personal abuse edited out by Chockstone Moderator.] to a moderator?

Chockstone Moderator

28-Dec-2012
12:37:26 PM

On 26/12/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>chocky mod lame response.
>
>I know odh,
>
>I have met tonyb.
>
>Both good blokes and calling someone an idiot should'nt be a. Hanging
>offence. [Personal abuse edited out by Chockstone Moderator.]

On 28/12/2012 Will_P wrote:
>ODH gets a two week suspension for calling someone an idiot, but WWS gets
>nothing for saying [Personal abuse edited out by Chockstone Moderator.] to a moderator?

The lack of action by widewetandslippery after reading my PM to him about that, and logging in a second time without action, was disappointing; but I think we Moderators are relatively thick skinned so I let his original post stand for a bit, pending an outcome.

Since I have had to edit your post widewetandslippery, you are now on notice for time-out, if you persist with forum personal abuse of other Chockstone posters.

For public clarification, there have been a number of PM's sent to and fro behind the scenes to ODH (and widewetandslippery), over a long period of time, and ODH knew he was on short notice due previous warning, but chose to test our limits (again).
Despite the seemingly apparent time lag regarding public moderation response (for both ODH and widewetandslippery), the situation was under control.

widewetandslippery

28-Dec-2012
1:26:32 PM

I retract the last deleted sentence. Yes out of order, childish and inappropriate but i stand by my position of your nannying Mr Moderator.

Will_P do you spend life sucking up to authority?

I stand by that i reckon TonyB and ODH are both good blokes.

Will_P

28-Dec-2012
2:13:03 PM

Pft, whatever dude. You're the only one on here that really makes me consider using the 'ignore' function.


E. Wells

28-Dec-2012
6:39:21 PM

well I (moderator) sheep, and I (moderator) goats, I stick my (moderator) right down they're throats , so what, so what, so what so what you dirty little (moderator)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Dec-2012
2:57:24 PM

On 26/12/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>chocky mod lame response.
>
I am becoming worried about you ww&s as you seem to have an incurable death wish?

1st it was the Pagoda, and now it is giving a Mod a hard time...

RUOKcobber, ... or have you broken your packraft paddle?
Heh, heh, heh.

☺


MisterGribble

31-Dec-2012
9:04:11 PM

Just back on topic for a second, why do gymnasts use it on parallel bars, rings etc?

They have a big bucket of it beside the aparatus, not some ditsy little bag you can only get your tips in

Hmmm ?

Final post of 2012? Gribble has the last word....


Miguel75

31-Dec-2012
9:41:57 PM

On 31/12/2012 MisterGribble wrote:
>...SNIP... Final post of 2012? Gribble has the last word....

If the world were to end tonight, are they the last words you'd want? Mine would probably be pumpernickel, and/or sesquipedalian;)


Mistergribble

31-Dec-2012
9:58:37 PM

On 31/12/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 31/12/2012 MisterGribble wrote:
>>...SNIP... Final post of 2012? Gribble has the last word....
>
>If the world were to end tonight, are they the last words you'd want?
>Mine would probably be pumpernickel, and/or sesquipedalian;)

I was thinking.....

Tapeworm

Bye


Miguel75

31-Dec-2012
11:06:50 PM

On 31/12/2012 Mistergribble wrote:
>On 31/12/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>>On 31/12/2012 MisterGribble wrote:
>>>...SNIP... Final post of 2012? Gribble has the last word....
>>
>>If the world were to end tonight, are they the last words you'd want?
>>Mine would probably be pumpernickel, and/or sesquipedalian;)
>
>I was thinking.....
>
>Tapeworm
>
>Bye

Hi,

Aloysius Snuffleupagas...

Boom;)


Mistergribble

31-Dec-2012
11:32:38 PM

Bugger the fireworks,

Fiscal Cliff - chalk free!


Miguel75

1-Jan-2013
12:28:51 AM

Happy new year everyone;)

'night señorgribble


Duang Daunk

2-Jan-2013
3:53:05 PM

On 28/12/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I retract the last deleted sentence. Yes out of order, childish and inappropriate
>but i stand by my position of your nannying Mr Moderator.
>
Yeh but why did you retract it cos that is wht you thought, right?
Let the mods deal with it as they are ony humans too.
If time out worries you then ask odh what he reckons about it, as generally its not an issue if you plan your hols to coincide.

There are 41 messages in this topic.