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 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 50
Belaying the leader directly off the anchor.
One Day Hero
12:59:43 PM
Hey Cliff, can you even climb properly? I've come to realise that there's all sorts of idiots on the web who can't even lead grade 18, yet feel comfortable commenting on this sort of crap as if they're a real climber or something.

1:25:42 PM
On 6/08/2012 Sliamese wrote:

>And yeh im a guide, whoopty do. I know qualified guides that id say have
>a poor understanding of rope stuff! The ticket means nothing compared to

I agree with you there, but I have to say using a Gri Gri would be counter productive ,
yes they are good at holding falls but they start slipping at 9kn as apposed to 3kn of a tube type device,
in combination with ice screws and warthogs (ice pitons) it would create too much shock loading perhaps risking the placement, a ff1.5 then becomes a ff2 !
as a possible sugestion I would use a Super Munter as it holds big falls easily but is more dynamic as a tool than a gri gri.

1:30:31 PM
Climbing properly?? WTF does that mean? Climbing ability and rope system knowledge are two different things altogether. Talented climbers are generally shit guides.

Australian guiding standards, what are they? Climbers are their own worst enemy in australia. The bodies that should be improving standards etc often turn into little boys clubs unfortunatly. We'll get there but for now we are miles behind! Mostly public perception and liability laws hold things back, but as a group we're not exactly doing our best to push things forward!
One Day Hero
1:35:36 PM
Goddamn it, I can't seem to buy a bite today!

Seriously though, I'm all for the idea of undermining the public perception of "the guiding profession" in Australia. I know what all the associations are hoping to achieve, but it just doesn't seem to work. Good guides would still be good guides without all the serious-face shit that the governing bodies seem to insist upon. Shankers still get through, no matter what. The public can't tell the difference between uiaa and outward bound anyway.

Edit; Yay, there's one. Thanks for indulging me Simon :)

1:36:41 PM
On 6/08/2012 Sliamese wrote:
>Climbing properly?? WTF does that mean?

If it means what I think it means, then Id be at the monkey bars behind the school shed for a climbing showdown between odh and cliffyD ! who can climb the bestest.
One Day Hero
1:48:41 PM
On 6/08/2012 Cliff D wrote:

>ODH for sure.

I dunno about that. 'Death drops' have always freaked the shit out of me, and I just couldn't ever work out how to do a giant. Cliff might well have the upper hand on the monkey bars.
One Day Hero
2:13:21 PM
On 6/08/2012 muki wrote:

>I agree with you there, but I have to say using a Gri Gri would be counter
>productive ,
> yes they are good at holding falls but they start slipping at 9kn as
>apposed to 3kn of a tube type device,
>in combination with ice screws and warthogs (ice pitons) it would create
>too much shock loading perhaps risking the placement, a ff1.5 then becomes
>a ff2 !

So, if one were to use a gri gri straight off an ice screw, what would a ff2 turn into? Would it be a ff2.5? Or even ff3?
5:27:12 PM
On 6/08/2012 Cliff D wrote:
>On 6/08/2012 Wendy wrote:
>>Well, to put it simply, I don't take clients up anything that might necessitate
>>these situations.
>Well then, you haven't offered any useful solutions then have you. What
>a waste of time!
>I think you miss the point of the video. Marc and the video clearly state
>that it's a training tool for guides. Guides don't usually guide competent
>climbers, as you keep writing in your posts. What is in question is how
>to protect the guide and client in the situations described in the video.
>Sure you can get your pals to do all sorts of stuff (and safely too), but
>this cannot be expected of clients.

So if guides don't take out competant clients (and yes they do often enough when people have more money then time to find climbing partners), why would they be on routes involving big falls etcetc - I'm talking about making appropriate judgements of ability, route and conditions so you don't end up in these situations. Is that so hard to understand?
>Again, I just wouldn't be doing something where this is going to be an
>issue with
>>a client. I don't leave the ground until i'm happy my clients can belay.
>Well if that's good enough for guiding in Australia, well its just good

I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation anywhere. Would you like to be belayed up something by someone you thought wouldn't catch you? And I have offered several solutions to ensuring your belayer catches you.

5:34:37 PM
On 6/08/2012 Cliff D wrote:
>Ahhh Sensei ODH.
>I can't say much about Australian guiding, but the ACMG ticket is very
>tough... especially for alpine guiding. Most of the guides I've met OS
>were very professional in their attitude, knowledge, and ethics. Constantly
>improving their guiding skills... not just crankin harder.
>FWIT, I can't imagine any of them slagging off another professional guide
>(or association) in a public forum like this though. It just feels like
>turf wars/tall poppy/island mentality... I don't know what. Rather than
>just be professional and say... OK, lets look at the evidence.... the cannon
>(mouth) goes off. I'd say that some of the responses in this thread have
>the potential to undermine public perception of guiding in Australia as
>a profession.

I got grumpy with the guy in the first place because he stated something along the lines of "obviously these people are not guides and have no idea what they are talking about". How come it's ok for him to jump to conclusions about the experience and competence of people and yet you carry on about me? If he'd responded to the legitimate problems we had with the system instead, I'd not be so shîtty about it.

Mike Bee
6:22:54 PM
My thoughts on this are as follows. They are relevant mainly for guiding trad climbs, not in the mountains (something I have no experience with as a guide).

- Guides rarely do a climb when falling is going to be concern. Most time is spend dragging kids up the Organ Pipes. In this situation, it doesn't matter how the kids are rigged to "belay", as they are mainly cosmetic, and the protection is there for rope management as much as anything else.

- If a guide is taking a client up a harder climb when falling is going to a possibility, generally it's done with clients who by their very nature are not newbies (ie they want to be guided up a harder climb). In this situation they are either competent enough to belay with a tube device safely, or they are competent enough that a few minutes instruction with a Gri Gri will get them up to a sufficient standard.

- If the guide is going to head off on a climb where falling is a realistic chance, and they aren't sure about the belayer/device combination, I question if the guide is making the right decision. They should probably reevaluate their whole day plan.

I can see the argument for the situations that are outlined in the video, I just think that none of them are relevant to recreational rock climbers or rock climbing guides in Australia.

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There are 50 messages in this topic.


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