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Help a chap out - Jumars wanted.


shortman

5-Jun-2012
7:33:19 PM

I've been on the verge of offering my jumars about 10 times since u started this thread Olbert. Finally I relent, they are yours. Pm me and we can sort it.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Jun-2012
7:44:12 PM

On 5/06/2012 shortman wrote:
>I've been on the verge of offering my jumars about 10 times since u started
>this thread Olbert. Finally I relent, they are yours. Pm me and we can
>sort it.

~> Take him up on the offer Olly, as they are probably still brand new* and need a few 'I've been used' scratches!
;-)

(*Certainly better than my prehistoric ones!)


Miguel75

5-Jun-2012
8:17:05 PM

On 5/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Also be aware that if you need to 'jumar' with a 'micro-ascender', it
>potentially sucksbigtime depending on the krabs that you use with it.
>~> Likewise hauling with a 'micro-ascender'...

Too true. I have a ropeman mk2 and suffered through some horrible experiences with the wrong biner. I found a smaller biner the best and really like the BD positron locker.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Jun-2012
8:37:22 PM

On 5/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>I have a ropeman mk2 and suffered through some horrible experiences
>with the wrong biner. I found a smaller biner the best and really like
>the BD positron locker.

Smaller or bigger?
I have a mate who found a larger diameter radius krab performed better with the original ropeman product...


Miguel75

5-Jun-2012
8:53:55 PM

On 5/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Smaller or bigger?

Not sure what you mean M9, I found a smaller biner (cross section wise) better...

>I have a mate who found a larger diameter radius krab performed better
>with the original ropeman product...

I tried a whole bunch of locking biners; Petzl attaché, a bunch of BD lockers, an OP locker, even an old clog locker and the bigger they were the harder they were to slide up the rope. I find any locker works when using the ropeman in a 3:1 though prefer the positron locker for ascending or using it as a backup on self belay TR.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Jun-2012
8:59:19 PM

On 5/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 5/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>Smaller or bigger?
>
>Not sure what you mean M9, I found a smaller biner (cross section wise)
>better...
>

I thought my mate found a larger 'cross section wise' krab worked better...
He was using it as the third ascender connected to a chest harness, and wanted it to run up the rope more freely but still grip for downward loading.
It was his sorry experience though (as I was using my faithful jumars), and it was quite a while ago, so my memory could easily be wrong.
~> If that is the case then I am sorry for creating any confusion; and regardless, next time I see that bloke I shall ask him to refresh my memory!


Miguel75

5-Jun-2012
9:19:14 PM

On 5/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 5/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>>On 5/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>>Smaller or bigger?
>>
>>Not sure what you mean M9, I found a smaller biner (cross section wise)
>>better...
>>
>
>I thought my mate found a larger 'cross section wise' krab worked better...
>He was using it as the third ascender connected to a chest harness, and
>wanted it to run up the rope more freely but still grip for downward loading.
>It was his sorry experience though (as I was using my faithful jumars),
>and it was quite a while ago, so my memory could easily be wrong.
>~> If that is the case then I am sorry for creating any confusion; and
>regardless, next time I see that bloke I shall ask him to refresh my memory!

No stress M9, I misread your question;) I think it's all preference. I preferred the ropeman to slide up the rope almost 'effortlessly'. Bigger biners didn't do that so I didn't like them. In saying that one biner, the oval OP biner almost locked the system up completely. It barely moved on a 10.3...


Miguel75

5-Jun-2012
9:25:29 PM

In typical Chocky fashion we're 3 pages in and seemingly without a resolution.

Have you secured a set of jumars yet Ollie?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Jun-2012
9:27:14 PM

On 5/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>No stress M9, (snip) It barely moved on a 10.3...

The probs my mate had were on an old (read stiff) 11 mm.

Hey Olly, are you paying attention? ~> The sum of this discussion is to dial in whatever system (including all of its components), that you are going to run with, before you need to rely on it in earnest!

kieranl

5-Jun-2012
9:32:15 PM

On 5/06/2012 gfdonc wrote:
>I think somewhere I still have a grey jumar (the original) recovered from
>the floor of Buffalo Gorge many years ago. If I can find it you can have
>it. No warranty expressed or implied. You'll tie in to the tail of the
>rope, won't you?
>
That might have been one of mine. I lent my original set of jumars to a couple of Kiwis for a winter ascent of Ozy and they dropped one. So I got a nice new set of jumars from them. They didn't get up either - it was miserably wet.


ChuckNorris

5-Jun-2012
9:38:31 PM

Why the fk does he need jumars anyway.

Ollie, don't listen to anyone - you'll be fine with prussicks, way cheaper and lighter - so cheap you may even be able to afford them yourself, and with all that weight you'll save you'll be able to carry another 10 litres of water.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Jun-2012
9:42:33 PM

On 5/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>On 5/06/2012 gfdonc wrote:
>>I think somewhere I still have a grey jumar (the original) recovered
>from
>>the floor of Buffalo Gorge many years ago. If I can find it you can
>have
>>it. No warranty expressed or implied. You'll tie in to the tail of
>the
>>rope, won't you?
>>
>That might have been one of mine. I lent my original set of jumars to
>a couple of Kiwis for a winter ascent of Ozy and they dropped one. So I
>got a nice new set of jumars from them. They didn't get up either - it
>was miserably wet.

In early days of the grey jumars coming out it was recognised that dropping them easily caused brittle fracturing across the base of the handle; and the safety measure used to counteract that possibility was to tie in a hero loop off the top handle-loop (if that makes sense), and connect the attaching krab to both the bottom of the handle and also the hero loop extending to/from the top of the handle, ie redundancy.

If that jumar took a fall off the north wall, then it is suspect indeed!

If you compare the new style yellow jumars to the older grey ones, the new ones probably have twice the strength built into the lower part of the handles...

kieranl

5-Jun-2012
10:13:20 PM

On 5/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>In early days of the grey jumars coming out it was recognised that dropping
>them easily caused brittle fracturing across the base of the handle; and
>the safety measure used to counteract that possibility was to tie in a
>hero loop off the top handle-loop (if that makes sense), and connect the
>attaching krab to both the bottom of the handle and also the hero loop
>extending to/from the top of the handle, ie redundancy.
>
Yes my old ones were setup with some sort of tape arrangement through both top and bottom tie-ins.

>If that jumar took a fall off the north wall, then it is suspect indeed!
>
+1

gfdonc

6-Jun-2012
8:57:10 AM

On 5/06/2012 kieranl wrote:

>Yes my old ones were setup with some sort of tape arrangement through
>both top and bottom tie-ins.

Yep that sounds like it!
Want it back if it turns up? I've never used it due to paranoia about possible cracking, but I think it's under the house somewhere.

kieranl

6-Jun-2012
9:13:14 AM

On 6/06/2012 gfdonc wrote:
>On 5/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>
>>Yes my old ones were setup with some sort of tape arrangement through
>>both top and bottom tie-ins.
>
>Yep that sounds like it!
>Want it back if it turns up? I've never used it due to paranoia about
>possible cracking, but I think it's under the house somewhere.
>
No way would I want it back. If it ever re-emerges perhaps send it to Mikl for testing.

crazyjohn

6-Jun-2012
9:39:39 AM

On 5/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>I've always thought that fixing routes off the deck then sleeping on the
>ground is a bit wang. That whole thing people do on the Salathe where they
>jug and haul up a bunch of tatty fixed ropes on the first third doesn't
>even seem like they're properly climbing the route.

You mean "people" like Royal Robbins, Tom Frost and Chuck Pratt who fixed to heart ledge on the first ascent? It would have been interesting to watch you stand up at the 50th anniversary party of the Salathe wall in Yosemite last year and tell Royal and Tom how "wang" they were. Have you hauled up freeblast? Your advice about fixing is fairly "wang". Its done on nearly every big wall anywhere. In the rare times that a big wall is climbed WITHOUT fixing, then it is usually mentioned.

Hey Olbert! Be careful of ODH big wall advice. He is slipping poison in with the good stuff.

Also. Olbert! WTF are you going to climb in Yosemite? :) You are not going up The Nose with a ropeman and one set of jugs. Exactly which routes are you planning on doing so you can get good advice? There is a massive difference in tactics between climbing the routes like the East But of El Cap and the Nose. Its a bit strange that you have not told us yet... ;)

crazyjohn

6-Jun-2012
10:05:50 AM

On 5/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>I'm pretty sure the chaps are gunning for mostly free leading. I reckon
>the bare bones setup is 2 daisies and 1.5 ets for the leader, 1 daisy and
>1 et for the second (using that weird yosemite jugging technique which
>I dislike). Don't forget that Fantini's setup on Ozy was famously 1 daisy,
>1x4 step and 1x2 step (homemade) aiders.....didn't slow him down none.

If you are free climbing the leader does not need daisies or ets. I never used them. If you are freeing or french freeing you lead with a ATC guide or Gri-Gri, pro-traxion, and a jumar. On one free ascent of El Cap the leader climbed a pitch with this set up, set up the hauling system and freed the haul bag, then put the second on guide-mode belay and hauled and belayed at the same time. It worked out pretty good.

You can also lead with a tiny tag line and use this to pull up the haul line and hauling gear. I think tagging up gear is only necessary on the really hard pitches.


sliamese

6-Jun-2012
10:08:59 AM

+ 1 to CJ!

Sack off the rope-man idea!

use a tibloc if using a 3:1, with a nice oval locker it means you can rattle it for miles down the rope. It makes hauling heaps more efficient. But again counter balance hauling is the go with two people! And no tiblocs wont tear ropes if used correctly!

Buy yourself some jugs and a pro-traxion, you can save money everywhere else, but will regret saving the coin here on every pitch u climb!!

One Day Hero

6-Jun-2012
1:35:02 PM

On 6/06/2012 crazyjohn wrote:
>
>You mean "people" like Royal Robbins, Tom Frost and Chuck Pratt who fixed
>to heart ledge on the first ascent?

No, I think it was cool that those dodgy old dudes were doing those routes dodgy style so long ago. It's awesome that Harding spent a year yo-yoing up and down the Nose with his ropes hanging off it the whole time......how do you think it would go down if I tried to do an ascent like that now?

>Your advice about fixing is fairly "wang". Its done
>on nearly every big wall anywhere.

If "the way to do" the Salathe is to climb Freeblast with a daypack, rap the fixed lines, jug and haul the fixed lines, rap and spend a couple of days in the pub, then jug the fixed lines again and go for the summit..........I stand by my assessment that it's a bit wang. Given the crowds and everything, I don't question that it's the only way to go, but that doesn't alter the wangness of the whole situation.
>
>Hey Olbert! Be careful of ODH big wall advice. He is slipping poison in
>with the good stuff.

I'm not suggesting doing the route any differently.........just suggesting that (you already know the rest of this sentence)

I went to the Bugaboos a couple of years ago, keen on doing the classic Becky Chouinard (750m gr20, with 2-3hr each way from the tent, across a cruisy glacier). Some people bivy on the way there, most do it in a very long day from camp, quite a few get benighted on the route. A bunch of Japanese guys (5 or 6!!) showed up with haulbags bigger than themselves. They crossed the glacier and set up base camp, then spent the next week of stunning weather progressively fixing 500m of rope up the route prior to their "summit push", thereby tying up the route and wrecking things for everyone else who wanted to do it. This was widely considered to be a bit wang.


nmonteith

6-Jun-2012
1:42:07 PM

On 6/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>I went to the Bugaboos a couple of years ago, keen on doing the classic
>Becky Chouinard (750m gr20, with 2-3hr each way from the tent, across a
>cruisy glacier). Some people bivy on the way there, most do it in a very
>long day from camp, quite a few get benighted on the route. A bunch of
>Japanese guys (5 or 6!!) showed up with haulbags bigger than themselves.
>They crossed the glacier and set up base camp, then spent the next week
>of stunning weather progressively fixing 500m of rope up the route prior
>to their "summit push", thereby tying up the route and wrecking things
>for everyone else who wanted to do it. This was widely considered to be
>a bit wang

I wonder if this was the same group that spent a week fixing lines up Zubriggans Ridge on Mt Cook?

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