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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 87
Author
Australian prices!
Mike Bee
19/05/2011
11:34:52 AM
On 19/05/2011 ajfclark wrote:
>Sure, it doesn't explain the huge price difference, but saying they can
>bring stuff in for exactly the same price an individual can isn't correct
>either.

Local shops could buy their stock in from the US at the same price as climbers pay, but then the shop would have to add on their expenses, plus their normal mark up on top of that. There's no point in selling something at cost, so even if the stores did buy up from the states to fill their cabinets, they still wouldn't be competitive with buying direct from the states.

rodw
19/05/2011
12:03:07 PM
Local shops should be able to buy from the same place the US shops buy them from and import direct...prices would still be a bit higher but not the massive markups that are enforced now.
ClimbingNT
19/05/2011
12:48:20 PM
Rodw - there are a few places that sell gear locally and online which have only a small markup from the prices in the states.

I now always get my gear from this small group of people, as I have found you get better customer service, faster turn around times and better after sales support.

Unfortunatly there are also a lot of places that still sell with a massive mark up, and people still buy from them for some reason or another.

I would only ever consider paying through the teeth for something if I needed it the same day, as postage takes at least 2 days from anywhere else in Aus over my way.
Mike Bee
19/05/2011
12:55:02 PM
On 19/05/2011 rodw wrote:
>Local shops should be able to buy from the same place the US shops buy
>them from and import direct...prices would still be a bit higher but not
>the massive markups that are enforced now.

That would be ideal, but it's not going to happen any time soon I don't think. BD and S2S are nice and cosy, as are Petzl and Spelean.

The only way I could see the market structure changing is if sales of climbing gear in Australia plummet so much that it's no longer worth the time and money for the Australian distributor to continue with. Eg, S2S give up BD as one of their brands, and then the local shops make contact with BD directly wanting to set up an account. As it stands, as long as the Australian distributors are still in a contract with the manufacturers, no shops with an Aussie address will be able to establish a US wholesale account.

rodw
19/05/2011
2:08:36 PM
ClimbingNT - I garee there my statements are very generalised about Australian prices.....not all encompasing.

Mike Bee - also agree, dosnt stop me thinking mutlinational suppliers and distrubutors who exploit are money grabbing a-holes :) It could be stopped if the govt legislated against monopoly importation, but that aint going to happen with the cry " what about Australian jobs" would be used to stiffle the arguement for it....even though if you looked at it it would help Australian retailers much more than simpy trying to add the GST to imports below $1000 as competition would get prices down as it always does.
lacto
19/05/2011
3:53:24 PM
>
>I thought the real reason was that Japanse banks etc won't finance cars
>older than 5 years. I think they have pretty strict emissions testing
>also.
>
>These grey imports do make it to Australia also but there is a pretty
>small yearly quota on them. My guess is whoever imports them to Aust makes
>a killing! Cheap imports & it can be sold at Australian prices.
>
>But whatever... I try buy locally where possible (I check locally every
>time). But when the local store doesn't have something in stock & can't
>tell me how long to get it in.... why shouldn't I go online, pay 1/3 the
>price & have it next week anyway?
>The Australian market will have to realise sooner or later that the game
>has changed & will have to adjust. Change is the only constant.
>
japan ensures people turn over cars by charging everincreasing amount for rego as the age , I gather that 3 to 5 years ownership is where it is cheaper to upgrade , restriction on importing as alot of japanese cars dont meet australian design standards eg no creash reinforcing on the doors so virtually no side impact protection etc

JamesMc
19/05/2011
6:47:05 PM
Part of the differential is not Aus vs US but physical shop vs online. My observation is that prices in the US shops are lower but not massively lower than prices in Australia. Also, US prices are quoted without sales tax. That means that if you see something quoted $10, you have to fork out $11 (assuming 10% GST, it varies between states). If you buy it on line from Australia, you do't pay sales tax and you'd never even know the sales tax existed.

JamesMc
climberman
19/05/2011
9:38:47 PM
If there's such a killing to be made, here's everyone's chance to hop on board and make a motza. You could even be really nice and just make a little and be 'in it for the little guy'.

Or maybe it's just harder to stump up the dough and run a business than whine from the sidelines.

Buy from where you think you should as a consumer and eventually the market will follow some sort of line to some new place. It's retail flux time in the decade ahead. The lust for OS might abate somewhat when the dollar crawls back down.

aarond
20/05/2011
9:03:01 AM
Some snow shops in Australia are now charging a boot fitting fee because so many people are trying on boots and then buying the OS.
Philtown
20/05/2011
9:11:40 AM
On 20/05/2011 aarond wrote:
>Some snow shops in Australia are now charging a boot fitting fee because
>so many people are trying on boots and then buying the OS.

Which is rediculous if you've ever needed after sale service. i.e. all the time for ski boots. Every other piece of snow gear - totally understandable to buy OS.

And that's the issue boiled down - (some) local shops offer good service that's worth doubling the price for. Not all, but some.

rodw
20/05/2011
9:33:56 AM
Snow shops are partucularly angry about online sales as they are one of the hardest hit with the one distrubutor model...but alot don't deserve the extra money as service is poor...

For example 2 years ago i bought some ski/bindings online from US 50% even with shipping included arrived in 4 days. ...anyway skis arrived and the bindings were not mounted like they were meant to be so fired of email to supplier and while waiting for reply took them to two local ski shops to get quotes on getting them mounted...first one I went to which I had bought a ton of gear off in the past and he told me pretty much sucked in as I didnt buy Australian and he didnt have the template to fit my binding anyway but if I did he would charge me double......wtf?....thats just ensuring Ill never shop there again...

.......the second shop gave a lecture on how I didnt have warranty (even though the first time I was going to use them I was going to be in the US so wondered how his warranty would help me anyway)..and he also didnt have a template to fit bindings but he could sell me bindings and he'd give a discount to mount them....got quote...cheapest bindings he had were $200 (and they were crappy) and he'd take $10 off the $90 mounting fee to fit em....thats $80 for a 5 minute job (waxing and tune was going to be extra)... and bindings that were selling for $65 in the US and were to light weight for me anyway....again WTF???

....anyway cursing I got home with an email from orginal supplier who said box sent to me was wrong one and he'd dispatch correct shipment that day fully mounted and would throw in a free tune, and waxing set and comb for free....and I just pop my set in box and give back to delivery man...3 days later new skis arrived all sorted....excellent service while the to aussie ski shops permanently lost a customer...yeah they get screwed by the distrubutor but taking it out on customer after a bargin dosn't help them either.
patto
20/05/2011
11:15:39 AM
Almost everybody I know buys skis, boots & bindings overseas.

Retailers need to stop bitching about customers and start bitching about their distributors.
pecheur
20/05/2011
12:53:38 PM
On 19/05/2011 jezza wrote:
>True but the manufacturer is unlikely to get more $ through a sole distributor
>contract (the manufacturer may get convenience but it's the distributor
>getting the $) - I think these contracts are monopolistic and should be
>illegal.

Actually the manufacturer does get more money through a sole distributor contract because the distributor pays for the right to be the sole distributor.

However unfortunately given that especially in the climbing market there's no remotely dominant manufacturer for any product type, i.e. you don't have to buy Black Diamond cams, you could buy Metolious or Wild Country or whatever, this can't be treated as a monopoly and hence isn't illegal, and to be honest I don't think it should be, that would be excessive interference from the Government in the market.
NMcKinnon
20/05/2011
1:21:22 PM
On 18/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>Totally off topic - I want to know why cars cost half price as well. A
>Subaru WRX costs $25k there and $40k here for example!

The local sales, marketting, service infrastructure has to be supported by the volume of sales made in Australia. A large cost to this budget would be the advertising costs. Getting fancy ads made by over paid production companies, employing lazy video editors who spend the majority of their day surfing rock climbing chat forums.

nmonteith
20/05/2011
2:08:14 PM
On 20/05/2011 NMcKinnon wrote:
>The local sales, marketting, service infrastructure has to be supported
>by the volume of sales made in Australia.

Wouldn't that mean a SAAB should cost $5 million in Australia then?

> A large cost to this budget would
>be the advertising costs. Getting fancy ads made by over paid production
>companies, employing lazy video editors who spend the majority of their
>day surfing rock climbing chat forums.

Ha! You are so close to the truth it hurts. I finished a Subaru Impreza ad just last month.

tnd
20/05/2011
2:51:59 PM
On 20/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>...Wouldn't that mean a SAAB should cost $5 million in Australia then?

I did read that Volvo in one year in Australia spent the equivalent of over $1000 in marketing per vehicle sold.

The good Dr
20/05/2011
4:47:32 PM
A friend is currently bringing specialist tools into Aust. As an example, one of these items can be purchased online for 50GBP, about $AUD80 at the moment. To get the stuff in the wholesale price is abot 30% less than the UK retail. His importation costs are about 25% of the wholesale (transport, insurance, customs broker fees, customs tarrifs etc) making his raw price for the goods about $70. He charges a 50% markup for his wholesale to retailers = $105.00. If the retailer charges a 50% markup then adds 10% GST, the cost becomes $173.25.

The wholesaler friend of mine is a relatively small business and from that 50% margin has to insure all of the product and take the risk when a new product he purchases doesn't sell very well and also cop all of the usual business expenses. The manufacturer of the tools used to sell to anyone in Aust, but got burned enough times that they looked for a suitable single distributor to control their own risk, both financial and legal. Some of the legal risk stuff has to do with appropriate insurance for the goods in the market here. I believe the contract is exclusive including the stuff about overseas dealers not selling to other regions. Regardless of whether you think it is gouging or not, that is the way it works over here in this particular case.
egosan
20/05/2011
6:28:14 PM
On 20/05/2011 The good Dr wrote:
>Regardless of whether you think it is gouging or not,
>that is the way it works over here in this particular case.

Regardless of how your friend runs his business, I will buy that piece of gear from the states and have it shipped here. Your friend and most Australian retailers are bringing knives to a gun fight. The global market place is here and the local businesses are all too slowly in some cases coming to terms with it.

Everything changes. The business that will survive are trying to find ways to compete today. The ones that will go under are trying desperately to cling to the old business model.
patto
20/05/2011
7:14:43 PM
Retail electronics and computers have none of the issues mentioned here. Many distributors, no monopolistic behavior (except by Apple) and prices are totally comparable to overseas.

And this is in an industry where stock control is vital because a 2 year old item is out of date. Carry risk is even greater.

jezza
20/05/2011
9:05:03 PM

>Actually the manufacturer does get more money through a sole distributor
>contract because the distributor pays for the right to be the sole distributor.

That may be true, but doesn't take into account that a single distributor not only has the power to pressure climbing gear retailers with high prices, but also has the power to pressure the climbing gear manufacturer into lower prices.

>However unfortunately given that especially in the climbing market there's
>no remotely dominant manufacturer for any product type, i.e. you don't
>have to buy Black Diamond cams, you could buy Metolious or Wild Country
>or whatever, this can't be treated as a monopoly and hence isn't illegal

What you're saying saying is correct in a legal sense. However I don't feel that it should be this way. I don't agree that, from the perspective of a consumer, one piece of climbing gear is so easily able to be substituted for another. My experience is that, for sporting gear, features and brand are more important factors than price (although price is still an important factor). So, for example, you'll choose your C4s even though Friends might be slightly cheaper. But you mightn't get an Arcteryx harness, 'cause those are double the price of competitors.

In this situation, I would like to see the law changed so that a contract that doesn't allow other distributors (like that between S2S and BD) should be considered anti-competitive.

Also, isn't Black Diamond by far the largest manufacturer of climbing equipment? I don't have any hard evidence of that, just wondering.

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 87
There are 87 messages in this topic.

 

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