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The helmet question


shortman

16-Nov-2010
9:37:44 PM

Seriously...I just read this whole topic from start to finish...ur all mad....anyway...so i guess bein somewhat of a climbin beginner i should not only be wearing a helmet but also be usin a rope...anyone wanna teach a reallly good looking 6ft8 retired tight rope walker how to climb and ride safely?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

16-Nov-2010
10:22:28 PM

On 16/11/2010 shortman wrote:
>Seriously...I just read this whole topic from start to finish...ur all
>mad....anyway...so i guess bein somewhat of a climbin beginner i should
>not only be wearing a helmet but also be usin a rope...anyone wanna teach
>a reallly good looking 6ft8 retired tight rope walker how to climb and
>ride safely?

You "missed it by that much" ... (shades of M. Smart)!
~> Both the 'Find Climbers' section (heh, heh, heh), and two days from exercising your tight rope skills...
?
☻

dmnz

18-Nov-2010
10:52:24 AM

I think the interesting thing is I will wear a helmet always, even resort skiing, except bouldering where I'm more likely to fall off something steep enough and with not enough time to right oneself on the fall.

The only other time I had to fess up to was an alpine gully where I was wearing a hat cos it was so stinking hot and cos I was soloing didnt have a partner to go right, your helmet is still on your pack so I didnt realise til I'd got back down. Dumb.

Moral: helmets are cheap insurance. Wear them.

Godless

18-Nov-2010
11:19:19 AM

No. Fcuk off.


Doug

19-Nov-2010
7:04:11 PM

On 18/11/2010 dmnz wrote:
>I think the interesting thing is I will wear a helmet always

No, that's not at all interesting. Except to provoke the questions:
* do you wear one when you're driving?
* what about when you're a pedestrian?
* or climbing a ladder?
>
>Moral: helmets are cheap insurance. Wear them.

Wear one yourself if you want to. Suggest places where you think helmets are essential. But don't dictate your needs to others. 'Nuff said.


Miguel75

19-Nov-2010
11:29:47 PM

On 19/11/2010 Doug Bruce wrote:

>
>No, that's not at all interesting. Except to provoke the questions:
>* do you wear one when you're driving?

I once saw an entire family of safety conscious nerds driving along the monash freeway wearing matching old-school stackhats... Tre chic!

Olbert

21-Nov-2010
9:13:15 AM

On 19/11/2010 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 19/11/2010 Doug Bruce wrote:
>
>>
>>No, that's not at all interesting. Except to provoke the questions:
>>* do you wear one when you're driving?
>
>I once saw an entire family of safety conscious nerds driving along the
>monash freeway wearing matching old-school stackhats... Tre chic!

Jees I would never wear a helmet whilst driving - its so uncool and ruins my hair!!


rodw

21-Nov-2010
9:41:36 AM

On 19/11/2010 Miguel75 wrote:
>I once saw an entire family of safety conscious nerds driving along the
>monash freeway wearing matching old-school stackhats... Tre chic!

Just maybe one of the kids had a hole in the skull or something that required them to wear a helmet all the time to prevent death froma simple bump and the rest of the family was doing it to speed around the embarassment from people like you?


Sabu

21-Nov-2010
10:18:11 AM

In all seriousness wearing a helmet while driving is probably a very smart move. How many times do you hear of a car accident where the driver was taken to the Alfred with serious head injuries?

Its probably only the image factor that prevents people from doing it.


Miguel75

21-Nov-2010
2:21:31 PM

On 21/11/2010 Sabu wrote:
>In all seriousness wearing a helmet while driving is probably a very smart
>move. How many times do you hear of a car accident where the driver was
>taken to the Alfred with serious head injuries?
>

If you're talking about wearing a motorbike style helmet I'd agree it would offer better protection than nothing, though IMO a regular bicycle stye helmet would be next to useless with the forces involved in a car crash; you'd still have the major issues involved with closed head injuries, i.e. brains bouncing off the skull...

I never used to wear a helmet snowboarding though just after I started wearing one I had a huge fall that resulted in an acute subdural hematoma. Six weeks of down time and lots of side effects later I still shudder to think what might have been had I not been wearing a helmet.

Rodw, my comment was more around the fact that they were rocking 15+ year old original "stackhats" in a day and age when way more advanced helmet options exist...


rodw

21-Nov-2010
3:47:29 PM

I was just shit stirring Miguel...you can ignore me :)


Sabu

21-Nov-2010
7:52:39 PM

On 21/11/2010 Miguel75 wrote:
>If you're talking about wearing a motorbike style helmet I'd agree it
>would offer better protection than nothing, though IMO a regular bicycle
>stye helmet would be next to useless with the forces involved in a car
>crash; you'd still have the major issues involved with closed head injuries,
>i.e. brains bouncing off the skull...

True, although anything would be better than just your skull in most circumstances.

>I never used to wear a helmet snowboarding though just after I started
>wearing one I had a huge fall that resulted in an acute subdural hematoma.
>Six weeks of down time and lots of side effects later I still shudder to
>think what might have been had I not been wearing a helmet.

Wow, glad you're back on your feet after that. Precisely the type of injury i'm afraid of!

rolsen1

23-Nov-2010
4:59:50 PM

Video of someone talking about kid's concussions

http://www.ted.com/talks/kim_gorgens_protecting_the_brain_against_concussion.html

btw I'm not pro helmet, never wear one, as I basically I think wearing a helmet is "almost" irrelevant to safe climbing. The choices you make while are far more important.


joycepg

23-Nov-2010
5:14:17 PM

(just moved this from another thread)
for the record, i do wear a helmet when climbing (or riding, or kayaking). once when i was telling my son about all the risky stuff my generation used to do when we were growing up (because we didn't know any better and no-one told us we were being stupid) he added gloomily "and we're the safety generation". well, err, yes we are, because we've learnt from previous mistakes, and we try not to repeat them. we've instituted seat belts, air bags, random breath testing, cycling helmets, quit campaigns and more. we've grounded space shuttles and a380's while we work out how to make them safer. so i was a little surprised when (on another thread) someone recently posted "oh - don't start that helmet debate again". i didn't know there was a helmet debate. what exactly is the helmet debate? i've read this thread through, and i can find plenty of reasons for wearing them (like people getting seriously hit in the head), but i can't find any reasons against wearing them. messing up hair and not looking cool don't really count in my book... so what is the debate about? is it just that people want the choice - well, you have it. and i don't think climbers are the sort that go around telling other non-helmet-wearing ones they should be wearing a helmet. or are we worried about the media always dutifully reporting whether a climber who had an accident was wearing a helmet or not? they probably should anyway
so am i uninformed? are there any genuine reasons for not wearing helmet while climbing?


tnd

23-Nov-2010
5:16:10 PM

On 23/11/2010 rolsen1 wrote:
>Video of someone talking about kid's concussions
>
>http://www.ted.com/talks/kim_gorgens_protecting_the_brain_against_concussion.html
>
>btw I'm not pro helmet, never wear one, as I basically I think wearing
>a helmet is "almost" irrelevant to safe climbing. The choices you make
>while are far more important.

So everyone who's had a head injury climbing made a bad choice?

Olbert

23-Nov-2010
5:37:05 PM

On 23/11/2010 joycepg wrote:
>, but i can't find any reasons
>against wearing them. messing up hair and not looking cool don't really
>count in my book.

Do you seriously think that people dont wear helmets because its uncool or mess up their hair?

I would hope that most people who dont wear helmets some of the time do it because in some situations, they decide it's not warranted. I do accept that some people who dont wear helmets do so because it's something they have never done and wont do no matter the situation.

At some crags wearing a helmet is much less important than others - for example wearing a helmet doing trad multipitching in the Grose Valley as opposed to wearing a helmet doing sport climbing at South Central.

I would ask you why you dont wear a helmet while driving? Is it because its uncool? Is it because it messes your hair?

Clearly if you have an accident you will be far better off if you are wearing a helmet than if you are not. Clearly many people are severely injured and die from car accidents every year. Using the same logic you use for saying 'always wear a helmet when climbing' you should always wear a helmet when driving a car.

Whatever answer you give to 'why you dont wear a helmet while driving a car?' is the answer I would in turn give you to 'why I dont wear a helmet every time I go climbing?'.

In fact I am going to do Hotel California tomorrow and I will definitely be wearing a helmet. I went to Point Perpendicular last Saturday and I wore a helmet then too. I didnt wear a helmet when I last visited Thompsons Point. Horses for courses.

Wendy

23-Nov-2010
5:47:02 PM

On 23/11/2010 joycepg wrote:

>so am i uninformed? are there any genuine reasons for not wearing helmet
>while climbing?
>

Offwidths! There are some things that are difficult/impossible to climb in a helmet.

I suspect that it's all what you are used to. People who learnt to climb without a helmet learnt to feel comfortable and safe without a helmet - it wasn't so long ago that they were rarely worn by any climbers. People who learnt with one felt comfortable and safe with it on and vulnerable without it. It is a bit odd getting used to climbing in a helmet when you have not worn one before. There's something larger and heavier on your shoulders than there used to be. It's annoying over a beanie or sunhat. They can be hot and sweaty. They can fall over your eyes or off the back of your head.

Over time, some of the first lot decide the helmet idea is a good one, others compromise by judging when it's risky enough to warrant one and others swear that it remains totally unnecessary. A few of the second lot decide that there are times when it's not so much of an issue to have a helmet. Actually, a lot of people have made that decision about gyms, bouldering and sport crags, decisions which I think reflect their level of comfort with that environment more than the actual level of risk involved. Perceptions of risk vs actual risk.

Olbert

23-Nov-2010
6:10:25 PM

On 23/11/2010 davidn wrote:
>I'd be curious to see some statistics on head injuries when climbing.
>Does grade/steepness indicate likelihood of smashing your scone? Could
>you leak brain fluid on a 29 as easily as a 12? Everyone has an anecdote
>about 'this one guy' which might as well be an urban myth - it doesn't
>necessarily prove anything either way. Perhaps someone could do a ph.d
>on it?

Thinking about it I would suggest its much more likely to happen on a 12 than a 29. A 12 is much more likely to have loose rock with lots of big jugs ready to snap off; it might be very wandery and have large sections where the rock hasnt cleaned up; it is much more likely to be a trad route, in which case a fall may rip a chunk of rock out (if the rock is a bit shitty) or the leader might fumble gear; the route is more likely to be ledgy and so a fall might result in hitting the rock in a bad way.

The 29 on the other hand is much more likely to be on solid compact rock with no jugs that can rip off; its going to be a much more defined line (by chalk) and so the climber is much less likely to get off route; its probably going to be a sport route and so much smaller chance of fumbling gear and ripping it out in a fall. Also the 29 is probably going to be overhanging and continuous so a fall would be into open space with nothing to hit but air.


JamesMc

23-Nov-2010
6:55:25 PM

On 23/11/2010 joycepg wrote:
>so am i uninformed? are there any genuine reasons for not wearing helmet
>while climbing?
>
Because they're hot, uncomfortable, and in windy weather they interfere with communication.

These negatives don't apply to wearing a helmet when driving a car (assuming your car is air conditioned). So if you have a car without curtain air bags, you should be wearing a helmet while driving before you consider wearing a helmet while climbing.

JamesMc


skink

23-Nov-2010
7:36:47 PM

On 23/11/2010 JamesMc wrote:
>in windy weather they interfere
>with communication.

Huh?

There are 118 messages in this topic.