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The big trad gear destructo challenge

Wendy

12-Nov-2010
10:41:25 AM

On 12/11/2010 mikllaw wrote:

> The nightmare is using a grigri
>clipped directly to a belay.

You mean lead belaying off a grigri clipped directly into a belay??? That would be some weird belaying.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

12-Nov-2010
11:53:53 AM

On 12/11/2010 Pat wrote:
>ok while we are still on grigri use and M9 might be nearby, what about
>impact forces when solo aiding? Seems like they might get up there a bit.
>Do you use the grigri and is that what the screamers at the belay are for?

At the risk of thread hijack...
Impact forces while solo aiding potentially cover the whole range up to FF2 depending on the climbing / gear (or lack of) / rope out, etc, being undertaken at the time.
I don't use a grigri. Sometimes just use a running clove hitch, but for anything half serious I use a Silent Partner. I imagine once it locks off that there would not be much rope slippage, thus causing the rope to do a lot of work in absorbing the load involved.

The industrial-length screamers I use at the belay on serious routes are to hopefully mitigate consequences, if I ever stuff up to the point of putting the belay in jeopardy of failing!
If climbing thin aid then there is also a chance that those screamers will help the rope do it's thing (buys time), to the extent of helping some of that gear not to rip, and so lessen the fall.

mikllaw

12-Nov-2010
12:03:12 PM

Interesting, I guess the limiting factor is how much clean air there is under you. For very clean falls you could design something to limit the forces to 1 kN for 1m, then 1.5 for 5m then 2kn for 5m etc etc.


Pat

12-Nov-2010
4:22:06 PM

M9 said. . . Sometimes just use a running clove hitch, but for
>anything half serious I use a Silent Partner. I imagine once it locks off
>that there would not be much rope slippage . . .

do I take it that you haven't taken a fall on the silent partner?

p.s., I was surprised you didn't x-link to an aid thread - now I'll have to look myself:)


Macciza

12-Nov-2010
7:28:52 PM

Hi
I use the Kong Resettable loadlimiter thingys for same reason like M9.
Generally rope soloing I stick one at the belay, same reasons ; buys time, gives something to talk to when things get sketchy and you need to say 'watch me' . . .

Fell on them and fully deployed several times on a free project and felt happy.
No reason top remove them from the nest though to find out if the gear would hold.

And my aid grigri is worn to the point of slippage so I figure that helps me out a little as well; and don't care for reality to ruin my illusions . . .

Cheers
MM


Pat

13-Nov-2010
10:21:36 AM

So Macca,

you have taken solo aid falls on a gri gri with the Kong in the belay?


macciza

14-Nov-2010
4:03:59 PM

On 13/11/2010 Pat wrote:
>So Macca,
>
>you have taken solo aid falls on a gri gri with the Kong in the belay?

Yep - but nothing more than a few metres with only minor extension . . .
But theory is similar to M9's - it's the ultimate backup in case I really funk up,
but I'm pretty sure it helps add some dynamicism to the whole system
And also not really prepared to deliberately test the FF2 fall past the belay, but it should save me .


IdratherbeclimbingM9

14-Nov-2010
11:35:48 PM

On 12/11/2010 Pat wrote:
>M9 said. . . Sometimes just use a running clove hitch, but for
>>anything half serious I use a Silent Partner. I imagine once it locks
>off that there would not be much rope slippage . . .
>
>
>do I take it that you haven't taken a fall on the silent partner?
>

I have fallen on it a number of times now, both in aid and also free climbing. All of them smallish (read about 3m or 4m including rope stretch), and relatively inconsequential in the scheme of things.
The thing is, I have not studied just when it locked off or if there was any clove hitch slippage on the locked drum during those events, as my mind was preoccupied with other things at the time...
~> Remiss of me I know.
Heh, heh, heh.
☻

One Day Hero

15-Nov-2010
11:37:47 AM

Yawn! No one pulls gear in free-climbing falls because the belay was too hard. Either it falls out prematurely due to insufficient yankage during placement, or it just comes out at piss all force because the placement was shit.......look at how much force some of mikl's dogshit test-placements held! Set your gear with a badass tug, let the second whinge.....and stop fretting about the difference between a 3kN or a 6kN catch. A half decent wire will deal with the fall (if its still in the rock by time you fall off!)


jam

15-Nov-2010
2:10:34 PM

On 15/11/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Yawn! No one pulls gear in free-climbing falls because the belay was too
>hard. Either it falls out prematurely due to insufficient yankage during
>placement, or it just comes out at piss all force because the placement
>was shit.......look at how much force some of mikl's dogshit test-placements
>held! Set your gear with a badass tug, let the second whinge.....and stop
>fretting about the difference between a 3kN or a 6kN catch. A half decent
>wire will deal with the fall (if its still in the rock by time you fall
>off!)

i like this technique, my second doesn't... :)

mikllaw

15-Nov-2010
4:52:50 PM

I also ascribe to this method. But it's all theoretical with me as I rarely lead on natural gear.
I was bridging up a tips corner on saturday, calves screaaming, basically putting in a solid hanging belay every move.
Safe? Yes!
Pumped? Yes!

There are 111 messages in this topic.