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The big trad gear destructo challenge


ajfclark

28-Oct-2010
2:10:28 PM

Can you take photos of the placements before you destroy them? Then we could play a guessing game.


Chuck Norris

28-Oct-2010
3:00:51 PM

I have an alternate hypothesis - namely dumbarses are clueless regardless of how many years experience they've got.

Any chance you could get all the participants to take a spatial IQ test as well.


Superstu

28-Oct-2010
4:18:44 PM

I'd love to know how old nylon/spectra/dyneema slings go. I'm paranoid about the longevity of all synthetic polymers on my rack. The gear manufacturer's brochures always go on about replacing it often, but I know many people who have 5-10-20 year old slings on their gear. (DMM on their website says any sling showing fuzziness is 60% weaker than original condition - yikes!) ...

Only ever heard of fatalities when people have relied on tape that's been left out to the elements; never heard of a fatality where someone's cam/hex/etc sling broke.

I have half a dozen old hexes with slings/cords of various ages (some possibly older than me). You're welcome to destructo them. And a pile of old biners found at the bottom of el cap etc. that don't see the sun anymore.

hargs

28-Oct-2010
4:24:19 PM

I'm in. When and where?

hargs

28-Oct-2010
4:56:26 PM

On 28/10/2010 stugang wrote:
>Any chance you could get all the participants to take a spatial IQ test
>as well.

This I would fail. There's at least a chance some of my gear might stay in.


Macciza

28-Oct-2010
7:47:12 PM

On 28/10/2010 mikllaw wrote:
>What could be better a better way to spend a wet Sunday morning in Sydney?
>I’m after 3 people to place and test a few pieces of trad gear each. The
>test zone is in the Shire. Does anyone with between some and lots of trad
>climbing experience have a few hours to spare? I have some gear, but if
>you have a few ancient pieces you don’t mind destroying that would be great.

I maybe able to get along depending on when and where, and may have a piton or two, and some old nuts, hexs spare. I am in a dilemma about the cams, I quite like my old cams but they are starting to show 'some' wear after 20 years . . .
So yeah, I have some stuff you can destroy in the name of Science and the for the betterment of Mankind, I just need to get it back when your finished with it . . .
Cheers
MM


Chuck Norris

28-Oct-2010
9:22:22 PM

No offence meant mikl - but I really can't see how you are going to achieve anything 'scientific' with only 3 people. I'm sure you'll have a bunch of fun blowing up things but if you want more than that you'll have to rethink your experimental design.

simey

28-Oct-2010
9:45:04 PM

I still think the most realistic way of measuring climbers protection placing abilities is to use a Buster style dummy. Ask people who have just a led a pitch whether you can test their placements by tying Buster into the rope and then dropping him at various points on the climb to see what the outcome would be.


MonkeyBoy

29-Oct-2010
9:03:07 AM

On 28/10/2010 mikllaw wrote:
>What could be better a better way to spend a wet Sunday morning in Sydney?
>I’m after 3 people to place and test a few pieces of trad gear each. The
>test zone is in the Shire. Does anyone with between some and lots of trad
>climbing experience have a few hours to spare? I have some gear, but if
>you have a few ancient pieces you don’t mind destroying that would be great.

I am keen but not 100% if I can make it - I have some old 3cU's in the smaller range that I have placed but have always been really unsure about so would love to see how they go in the destruction challenge.

Been climbing trad for about a year so would class myself as a newish to intermendiate gear placer. Would anyone be driving from the inner west or is the final destination near a train station ?

mikllaw

29-Oct-2010
9:10:36 AM

barden ridge 9.00 am
call me on 0434 501 910 for details
I can pick you up in the inner west

mikllaw

29-Oct-2010
9:12:30 AM

On 28/10/2010 Macciza wrote:
>I maybe able to get along depending on when and where, and may have a
>piton or two, and some old nuts, hexs spare. I am in a dilemma about the
>cams, I quite like my old cams but they are starting to show 'some' wear
>after 20 years . . .
Barden ridge 9am call me on 0434501910 for details


MonkeyBoy

29-Oct-2010
9:12:54 AM

Cool. I will consult with the oracle of all klnowledge (the wife) and be in touch.

mikllaw

29-Oct-2010
9:14:26 AM

On 28/10/2010 superstu wrote:
>I'd love to know how old nylon/spectra/dyneema slings go.

I've tested a few newish one with massive cuts that were bomber, and some with 2 mm fuzz that were weak (7 kN)

I think they UV stabilised nylon in the 70's and it's less affected by sunlight now

mikllaw

29-Oct-2010
9:15:28 AM

On 28/10/2010 stugang wrote:
>No offence meant mikl - but I really can't see how you are going to achieve
>anything 'scientific' with only 3 people. I'm sure you'll have a bunch
>of fun blowing up things but if you want more than that you'll have to
>rethink your experimental design.

None taken, it's not exhaustive but it's a start.
Hopefully this will be repeated a few times, in a few different states, so we will probabaly have a database of 12 climbers and 60 pieces soon

mikllaw

1-Nov-2010
4:05:46 PM

On 28/10/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>Can you take photos of the placements before you destroy them? Then we
>could play a guessing game.

Ok, we rocked up in the suburban hell of The Shire on Sunday morning (hargs, superstu, Enmoore, and mikl), placed gear, rated it and destoyed it. We were wilfully destroying an untouched wilderness experience, so be prepared to be shocked

After your request, Superstu put all the peices on this webpage
http://www.sanguma.org/destructo
so you can all have a go at rating them (hard from a single photo i know) before we release the resultys.


Butters81

1-Nov-2010
4:33:18 PM

Having just rated all the placements, it might be worth showing the direction of force with an arrow as it isn't clear in some of the photos (eg the last one)

mikllaw

1-Nov-2010
5:11:41 PM

On 1/11/2010 Butters81 wrote:
>Having just rated all the placements, it might be worth showing the direction
>of force with an arrow as it isn't clear in some of the photos (eg the
>last one)

This is why i won't be rating beginner's gear by Iphone...

Pieces 1 - 12 are all down (photo 5 is poor, and downwards is into the page)
Pieces 13 to 16 are all in the direction of the cord or wire

Wendy

1-Nov-2010
5:53:18 PM

Does that pull cylinder shock load them or gradually increase the force?

hargs

1-Nov-2010
5:58:29 PM

On 1/11/2010 Wendy wrote:
>Does that pull cylinder shock load them or gradually increase the force?

Gradual increase.

Lee C

1-Nov-2010
7:22:11 PM

Just rated the placements, really cool! It seems that 90% of the time I should harden up! Nice work guys.

There are 111 messages in this topic.