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First Aid Kit


Eduardo Slabofvic

27-Aug-2010
2:54:51 PM

On 27/08/2010 Sabu wrote:
>What about an emergency blanket?

You left school 4 years ago. Time to put blankie away.

>On the topic of emergency kits. Does anyone carry a surival kit as well?
>ie water purification, tools to make a fire, etc.

Chocolate, brandy, lighter, spare lighter, splif, ipod, sunglasses

willy

27-Aug-2010
2:55:04 PM

>Emergency water bottle;
>Tourniquet;
>Lymphatic compression
>
>What can’t they do…
>

Cable Ties! for everything that the above cant do (if it exists)

J.C.

27-Aug-2010
2:59:03 PM

On 27/08/2010 Pok wrote:
>Those SAM splints look pretty nifty. How small do they roll?
>
>Also, I've never seem the point of a notepad and pencil. It gets included
>in so many first aid kits... What is it for? Writing a final dying message?
>Making sure the rescue crew knows you are allergic to peanuts, even if
>you are comatose? To write a stern letter to the NPWS for not removing
>all venomous snakes from the park?

splints roll up to the a little thicker than a bangage and about 1.5 times as long

the notepad is a relic from when i was working with ski patrol & then from guiding in the mtns, just got into the habit of making notes on patient history, allergies, and condition etc when assessing them, as well as drugs given and what time etc. helps with monitoring them especially if you have a bunch of people to keep track of, and helps make sure your shit is accurate when you hand them over to the ambo. im sure there are other reasons if anyone wants to enlighten us. dr wills?

casper

27-Aug-2010
3:48:22 PM

Emergency blanket is a huge one. For such a small packing item they are pretty handy - can carry water, signal, and keep you warm.

In feb when I fell/slid 30m down Eurobin and lay at the bottom getting sprayed by the waterfall, an emergency blanket was pretty much all my wife could do - and it was a huge help in stopping me getting hypothermia while we waited laying in the water an hour for the ambos and another few hours for the chopper. Other than the blood coming from my skull and the grazes down my right side, all my other injuries (fractures in pelvis, spine, skull, ribs, torn acl and internal bleeding from liver) were all internal, and untreatable in a first aid sense.

If we had been in a more remote location, or unable to use the mobile, we would have been pretty screwed...so in terms of a major trauma injury such as the one I got, should a beacon be included in a kit? We don't carry one, but after this we're thinking about it.


salty crag

27-Aug-2010
4:26:08 PM

>If you really want to take pills, piss off the pain killers and throw
>in some anti histamines, as they may actually be of some use in an emergency,
>e.g. allergic reaction to bee sting.

Agree with this, had a buddy react to a bullant bite at the top of a rather remote crag, anaphylactic reactions seem a lot more common nowdays.
Gloves, to protect you not the patient. ladies pads make super absorbent sterile dressings.
If you climb with an asthmatic or known allergy sufferer make sure they take along their own kit and read the instructions on epipens prior to using or better get them to self administer.

sleake

27-Aug-2010
5:52:59 PM

Climbed with a dude in NZ who's first aid kit consisted of a space blanket and a condom gaffed on the inside of his helmet.

Only ended up using one of them though..........


vwills

27-Aug-2010
11:14:25 PM

>Slightly off topic... A friend once told me the best way to clean a wound
>without saline is to pee in it. Another reason for women to carry a shepee?
>I don't know if they could get adequate pressure, though. :)

Pulsed lavage for wound debridement is all the rage. So if you are going to do that, a bit of sphincter training wouldnt go astray.

Head torch, medical tape, a compression bandage, some pads and a mobile phone will cover most eventualities. If you are prone to anaphylaxis then you should carry your epipen and know how to use it. If you are prone to headaches take some paracetamol with you. Most climbing is done a short walk from a car. You dont need a wilderness first aid kit for cragging. Have a kit in your car that can treat minor wounds. Get your tetanus immunisation up to date.


rocksinmyhead

28-Aug-2010
6:34:14 PM

Hi Pok,

I'd throw in two or three CPR face shields. Hopefully you'll never need them, but they're small enough and make a difference, especially if you're dealing with a stranger. They can become slippery and useless after about ten minute (the face shields, that is), so multiples would be nice. I've read that you no longer have to do the breaths for CPR for a suspected heart attack, but that they are still needed in other situations.

>
>Slightly off topic... A friend once told me the best way to clean a wound
>without saline is to pee in it. Another reason for women to carry a shepee?
>I don't know if they could get adequate pressure, though. :)

Hmm,..... must be an interesting technique when it comes to treating head wounds.......

martym

29-Aug-2010
5:39:43 AM

On 27/08/2010 Pok wrote:
>So I'm making up a climbing-specific first aid kit. Something to whack
>in the bottom of my daypack, so it needs to be quite small, hopefully slightly
Put it in the top - in an emergency you'll be happy you don't have to fling half your gear out.

I have a bigger kit - large takeaway...
and a smaller one that has a biner clipped for multipitches where we're not carrying a pack.. i also have clip a 1.5l swisstech water bottle that looks like a world war two relic after so a chimneys..

>smaller than your average Chinese takeaway container.
But you'll use something stronger right?

>What have you most wished for in a first aid kit?
Serious Nurofen type stuff comes in handy for extremely hot days when no matter what you do someone gets a headache. Panadol takes hours to kick in.

*I have some left over aqua tabs stuffed in my kit.. just cause I have nowhere else to put them though.

>edit: I always have tweezers handy, with my swiss army knife.
If you've got a rock splinter, those tweezers are crap - go the extra $1.75


vwills

29-Aug-2010
9:57:27 PM

>I'd throw in two or three CPR face shields. Hopefully you'll never need
>them, but they're small enough and make a difference

They will make no difference. If you are trying to use these then the person is dead and at a rock climbing crag they will remain dead. Unless perhaps you are at Hartley vale and have travelled there in an ambulance with your Kerry Packer donated defibrillator on charge.

Marssan

29-Aug-2010
10:42:09 PM

On 29/08/2010 vwills wrote:
>>I'd throw in two or three CPR face shields. Hopefully you'll never need
>>them, but they're small enough and make a difference
>
>They will make no difference. If you are trying to use these then the
>person is dead and at a rock climbing crag they will remain dead. Unless
>perhaps you are at Hartley vale and have travelled there in an ambulance
>with your Kerry Packer donated defibrillator on charge.

Bullshit
If effective CPR is initiated early you CAN still have a good neurological outcome despite prolonged downtime.

Imagining this scenario at Shipley, it's not a huge stretch to say the ambos could be there in 20 min (where's the nearest ambo station?). 20 min is a long time to be receiving CPR but people have gone for longer and still had good neurological outcomes once zapped.


ajfclark

30-Aug-2010
7:57:08 AM

Speaking of CPR, they recently changed the recommended ratio of breaths to heart massage (3:20 if my memory serves, I'll check).


pmonks

30-Aug-2010
8:03:52 AM

On 27/08/2010 Pok wrote:
>So I'm making up a climbing-specific first aid kit. Something to whack
>in the bottom of my daypack

Did a remote area first aid course a decade or so ago, and one of the only things I remember was to attach your first aid kit to the outside of your pack, rather than shoving it down the bottom (as everyone usually does). Saves you a minute or two of faffing around if the brown stuff hits the moving things.

[edit] I also vaguely remember DRABC:
check for Danger (to both you and the patient)
check for Response from the patient
check and clear Airways
check for Breathing
check Circulation (ie. bleeding)


rodw

30-Aug-2010
8:16:21 AM

Compression bandage for snake bites and bottle of water...the rest is just a waste of time IMHO.

dave

30-Aug-2010
8:25:57 AM

On 30/08/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>Speaking of CPR, they recently changed the recommended ratio of breaths
>to heart massage (3:20 if my memory serves, I'll check).

30:2 I'm pretty sure it is, though it looks as though breaths might get ditched all together.


rocksinmyhead

30-Aug-2010
8:57:49 AM

The breaths have been ditched for treating suspected heart attacks only. In these cases, the reccommendations are you pump away on the patient's chest, at about 100 times a minute, till the cavalry arrives. The the pumping of the lungs by the compression and the occasional breathing by the patient is apparently enough.

One of the main reasons for ditching the breaths was that people were reluctant to start CPR because of the yuk factor of mouth to mouth breathing. Mouth to mouth breathing is still required in cases other than heart attack - e.g. trauma, hence the face shields. It might not happen at the crag either - e.g. you may be dealing with a car accident on an isolated road.

Marssan

30-Aug-2010
10:57:24 AM

If you're at your favourite crag and you see someone go down, no fitting, no clutching the throat choking etc, they just drop. Or you walk around the corner and you see someone laying on the ground not moving and no obvious cause (e.g. big rock next to their head).

The correct sequence of BLS in this scenario is Check for danger --> begin CPR.
Beginning CPR is a pretty good way to check response, if they wake up, good! Problem solved. Checking airways and breathing has been thrown out the window as has checking circulation. The reason being that the average person has no idea what they're actually looking for so they fart around going "check airways! fumble fumble, check breathing! fumble fumble, check for a pulse! fumble fumble" delaying initiation of CPR by minutes. Every second of delay of CPR is very very bad.

If you are unlucky enough to find yourself in this situation:
Don't hesitate, start pounding. Compressions are more important than breaths.
Compression to breath ratio is 30:2 as has been correctly pointed out. (In the USA they're getting rid of the breaths altogether, i don't think this has been formally adopted in Australia)
PUSH HARD AND FAST. You may feel ribs breaking under your hands, don't worry about it, happens all the time. Aim for a rate of 100 beats per minute. The tempo of the Bee Gee's song "Staying Alive" is about right. Ha (push) Ha (push) Ha (push) Ha (push) STAYIN' ALIVE!
Have one person do the breathing and alternate the pumpers. Effective CPR is tiring and it's been shown that quality of CPR decreases if one person is doing it for more than 3 minutes.
Don't stop until the electricity gets there.
Obviously if you're in a remote area they're not going to make it unless their heart spontaneously re-starts which is super rare.


nmonteith

30-Aug-2010
11:10:43 AM

On 30/08/2010 Marssan wrote:
>Aim for a rate of 100 beats per minute.
>The tempo of the Bee Gee's song "Staying Alive" is about right. Ha (push)
>Ha (push) Ha (push) Ha (push) STAYIN' ALIVE!

What a great tip! That is so much memorable than anything I've been told before. Thanks.

darryn

30-Aug-2010
11:21:05 AM

a little packet of salt to remove leaches. Essential kit at certain spots around sydney.


Billie W

30-Aug-2010
1:34:07 PM

I would get rid of the triangular bandages (you could use your shirt) replace with Leukostrips (bandage supplement for exterior stitches) I would also consider a space blanket if you mutipitch (weight less than 1 triangular bandage) I also carry 2x antihistomine tabs I would consider what are the main injuries encounted at the crag and what tools you would need that cannot be suplemented with the gear you carry

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