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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author
Old but unused rope - still okay or not?

KB2
30/10/2003
8:50:54 PM
hey everyone. Was chatting to a friend the other day and he revealed that he used to do a lot of climbing and still has a lot of gear.
Sitting in his cupboard at home is a 10mm Mammut rope. Bought 5 years ago and used once in the gym.....would it still be okay to use?
cheers, and enjoy the cup weekend where ever it takes you!
kb2

shiltz
31/10/2003
8:11:51 AM
Can't see why not unless it is obviously damaged by insects (unlikely for a nylon rope) or something. If it feels reasonably supple then go for it. Ropes normally age due to exposure to sunlight, wear from rubbing against the rock, exposure to chemicals, abseiling and falls. If he's only used it once indoors it should be as good as new.

Mike
31/10/2003
9:01:51 AM
As I understand it, after five or six years, even a rope that never gets used will have lost some elasticity, simply due to age. You might not want to take a serious leader fall on it, but it should be fine for abseil/top rope.

Here's a little cut and paste to stir up some conversion....

______

Conference on Nylon and Ropes for Mountaineering and Caving
21.10.2002 10:00
The Club Italian Alpine Club under the auspices of the UIAA organized this conference in Turin. While it was known that wet ropes lose much of their capacity, the rapid degradation of ropes in abseiling and top roping is surprising.

A SUMMARY OF THE CONFERENCE ON NYLON AND ROPES, TURIN, MARCH 8/9, 2002

Several scientific papers were presented, including mathematical modeling of belay techniques and analytical models for the analysis of textile ropes. Water absorption in polymers is much better understood now than over 30 years ago, when tests established that a wet rope loses much of its dynamic performance. Today it is known that water causes the nylon to plasticize, drastically changing its mechanical and physical properties.


5. When to retire a rope; a study of rope wear:
- it is hardly any news that the principal factors of rope wear are the combined effects of rubbing against rock, mechanical reduction (rappelling and belaying devices), dust and microcrystals that penetrate the sheath and the number of meters climbed (not the time used),
- the enemy of rope wear is friction - most intense in abseiling and top roping, made worse by dirt, and the inevitable rubbing against rock,
- some abseiling devices produce much more wear damage than others,
- after only 50 descents with a figure-eight, the dynamic resistance of a rope is reduced by one third (number of drops). The descents were undertaken with extreme care - slowly and without impact,
- rappelling with a Robot (a multi-use device manufactured by Kong) does not appear to compromise the dynamic resistance of the rope. The device functions like a carabiner brake,
- not surprisingly rope wear is much more severe on granite than on limestone,
- rope degradation is approximately proportional to the number of broken textile yarns of the sheath,
- current work confirms previously published information. After climbing approximately 5000 meters, the dynamic resistance of the rope is reduced to half and after an additional 6000 meters it is down to 30 % (UIAA Bulletin # 146, June 1994, in German),
- see also The Journal of the UIAA #3, 2000, pp. 12 - 13, available on the Internet under http://journal.uiaa.ch/edition.asp?id=114.

neats
24/11/2003
4:37:45 PM
maybe just use it for top roping.
dodgy
26/11/2003
5:08:10 PM
From "Rock and Ice - Gear" by Clyde Soles

"We tested an 11mm rope that was virtually unused and had been properly stored for about twenty years. To look at it anyone would think it was in great shape and probably wouldn't hesitate to climb on it. The rope held one UIAA/CEN drop"

So the answer is, I don't know...

shmalec
27/11/2003
5:25:16 PM
chop a coupla metres off the end of it. Tie one end to UIAA certified big mother weight. Tie other end to (insert your choice of tall strong ancor) and drop repeatedly until failure or satisfaction is achieved.
DMWdesign
29/06/2014
5:12:11 PM
On 27/11/2003 shmalec wrote:
>chop a coupla metres off the end of it. Tie one end to UIAA certified big
>mother weight. Tie other end to (insert your choice of tall strong ancor)
>and drop repeatedly until failure or satisfaction is achieved.

I have a similar dilemma about old ropes. I am a canyoner but probably only do about 5 canyons per year. I have just retired my previous set of Edelrid 9mm superstatics after 15 years use. It was a hard decision as they seemed perfectly OK, but I did not want to tempt fate and maybe something was deteriorating within the rope that was not obvious looking at the rope exterior.

But, i'll tell you a story about rope strength. A couple of years ago when living on a country property, I was digging small boulders out of our driveway. For the final pull-out I used a 30 year old 9mm dynamic climbing rope (bought in a bushwalking shop in Melbourne) that I used a few times for abseiling. I tied the rope around the rock and attached it to the back of my Nissan Navara 4WD. There was no way i could budge that rock. The car kept stalling and i gave up because i didn't want to burn the clutch out. The rope did not break.

E. Wells
29/06/2014
5:25:38 PM
So it was purchased in 2009. Hmmmm. You should sell it to me for fifty dollars and I will tow boulders with it.











Oh.....message from 2003. darn.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
29/06/2014
7:26:11 PM
On 29/06/2014 DMWdesign wrote:
>I have a similar dilemma about old ropes. I am a canyoner but probably
>only do about 5 canyons per year. I have just retired my previous set of
>Edelrid 9mm superstatics after 15 years use. It was a hard decision as
>they seemed perfectly OK, but I did not want to tempt fate and maybe something
>was deteriorating within the rope that was not obvious looking at the rope
>exterior.
>
>But, i'll tell you a story about rope strength. A couple of years ago
>when living on a country property, I was digging small boulders out of
>our driveway. For the final pull-out I used a 30 year old 9mm dynamic climbing
>rope (bought in a bushwalking shop in Melbourne) that I used a few times
>for abseiling. I tied the rope around the rock and attached it to the
>back of my Nissan Navara 4WD. There was no way i could budge that rock.
>The car kept stalling and i gave up because i didn't want to burn the clutch
>out. The rope did not break.

G'day again DMWdesign! ;-)
Heh, heh, heh.
It is good to see that you are researching topics.

I can relate to your 'story'; ... and I have a similar; ... as back in 1988 I was travelling in convoy with another 4WD vehicle to some adventure-climbs in the Budawang Range of NSW (back when those tracks were legitimately open for public use), when the other vehicle (behind me), became inextricably bogged.

We eventually extricated it by using a static caving rope in similar fashion to a 'snatchem-strap', before the retail version of that concept was commercially available...

Originally we attached a single strand of that rope, and we took up the slack by creeping the tow-vehicle forward, then added increased vehicle-pull to the load.
The tow vehicle skidded around a bit & started digging itself in, then the rope broke, not so much due the load, but the sharp edge of the towing point...
We re-attached the rope double-strand, and tried a different towing tactic...
~> When you hurl a Toyota troop-carrier, against a slack rope attached to a seemingly immovable object, it produces impressive results.
The bogged vehicle was retrieved, and the rope seemingly suffered no damage, nevertheless it was retired to becoming a top-strand (tensioned suitably for the purpose), of a fence, to retain a couple of donkeys in a paddock!
I was suitably impressed with the inbuilt stretch of a 'supposedly' static rope...

Up until that point I too was conservative in my use of climbing rope replacement tactics.
Despite manufacturer recommendations, I have since applied the logic that based on their figures; ... normally being along the lines of 80%+ of the strength of a climbing rope comes from the 'kern' in kernmantle, and unless obviously damaged due to known causes, the rope is basically sound, and this proven by various testings of old climbing ropes retaining enough strength to meet their original intended application, albeit at a lesser degree.
The caveat to my logic is suitable storage away from UV light, moisture, chemicals, etc; this being facilitated by knowing the history of the rope involved.

Statistically this point of view has concerns, but not enough to inhibit me from retiring a climbing rope from potential lead-climber-fall arrest, to abseil or top-rope only usage, and after it becomes sufficiently stiff and/or fuzzy-sheathed from that usage, I then retire it a further step to tying down loads on my trailer, etc.

Do what your peace of mind dictates!

~> Let the flaming of my logic begin...!
Heh, heh, heh.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
29/06/2014
8:10:40 PM
On 29/06/2014 E. Wells wrote:
>So it was purchased in 2009.

?

On 29/06/2014 DMWdesign wrote:
>I have just retired my previous set of Edelrid 9mm superstatics after 15 years use.

~> My maths reckons 2014 - 15 = 1999

~> ~> Maybe you need to revisit your maths again E. Wells!
;-)


ajfclark
29/06/2014
8:18:13 PM
He was talking about the opening post.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
29/06/2014
8:23:04 PM
On 29/06/2014 ajfclark wrote:
>He was talking about the opening post.

Ok.

On 30/10/2003 KB2 wrote:
>Bought 5 years ago and used once in the gym

2003 - 5 = 2008
... still not 2009, so my premise of;
>~> ~> Maybe you need to revisit your maths again E. Wells!
>;-)
still holds true.


Post edit;
Pedants of the world unite! / dyslexics of the world untie!!
~> Shouted from atop the kitchen table, while punching fist in air above head!!
Heh, heh, heh.




2nd post edit re;
>as in he thought the opening post was current (2014-5=2009) then realised it wasn't.

Ok. I see it now. That 'logic' had not occurred to me!
~> More than one way to skin a cat. Viva la difference, as this also keeps the climbing game interesting.
mikllaw
30/06/2014
7:55:39 AM
Bomber, I just retired one of a set of 9mm ropes that I got in 1995 due to extreme wear, the other one should last a few more years. 5 years is nothing, I think my current 'best' rope is 4 years old.

The UIAA fall test is many times harsher than the real world:- high fall factor, no slip through a belay device, no belayer lift, no knot tightening, no climber's body movement.

I'd worry about it it you are doing things with mega falls on a fat belayer equipped with a Grigri. Particularly straight off a belay.

Or else I'd be happy to use it for a few years...

ajfclark
30/06/2014
8:20:05 AM
as in he thought the opening post was current (2014-5=2009) then realised it wasn't.
martym
30/06/2014
2:06:36 PM
On 29/06/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Post edit;
>Pedants of the world unite! / dyslexics of the world untie!!
>~> Shouted from atop the kitchen table, while punching fist in air above
>head!!
>Heh, heh, heh.
>2nd post edit re;
>Ok. I see it now. That 'logic' had not occurred to me!

Have you gotten off the kitchen table now?

There are 15 messages in this topic.

 

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