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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 2 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 85
Author
Dave MacLeod lowering accident
Wendy
5/10/2012
6:36:27 PM
On 5/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>What are you talking about? I'm even more impressed with McCloud's climbing
>now, knowing that he tows that huge melon up all his ascents!
>
>By the way, Climbaholic wins some sort of prize for being the only person
>so far to correctly identify that the cause of the acco was failure to
>tie a knot in the end of the rope. Watching the pile of rope, Wendy?..........wtf?

Well, i don't watch it slide through the bloody belay device! I'll chuck a knot in the end of them rope if, as I am watching pile the rope, it starts getting uncomfortably close to not be a pile of rope anymore. For that matter, if I'm getting lowered off a climb, i'll have a glance or two at the rope pile to make sure there's plenty of rope as well and remind my belayer about it. If either one of them had paid appropriate attention to the rope, it wouldn't have gone sailing through the belay device. Sure, a knot is fool proof, but if you are not a fool, being attentive is also highly successful. How many people have I lowered off the end of a rope again?
One Day Hero
5/10/2012
6:50:56 PM
So, remind me again. What's your super-important reason for not always having a knot in the end of the rope?

This is the bit which boggles my mind, there's absolutely no disadvantage to knotting the end for belaying and rapping. I don't consider myself a fool either, but............countless studies have shown that I'm right and you're wrong :)

E. Wells
5/10/2012
9:17:58 PM
I often ask my belayer to untie the knot at the end (when the pile is two meters) so it CAN pop through the device, theres a reason. Im usually on or close to the ground with stretch.

shortman
5/10/2012
10:59:58 PM
On 5/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>So, remind me again. What's your super-important reason for not always
>having a knot in the end of the rope?
>
>This is the bit which boggles my mind, there's absolutely no disadvantage
>to knotting the end for belaying and rapping. I don't consider myself a
>fool either, but............countless studies have shown that I'm right
>and you're wrong :)

I remember u being really anal about this shit with me.

And it wasn't till I told ya that I wasn't into dying that u left me alone.

ODH the knot nazi. Your like the helmet folk.

Do u tie a knot in the end of the rope on a 20m sports climb where u can see or know the lower off?

I reckon your in fruit cake territory if u do. Soon you will be bouldering in a helmet.
One Day Hero
6/10/2012
4:01:53 AM
On 5/10/2012 shortman wrote:
>I remember u being really anal about this shit with me.
>
>And it wasn't till I told ya that I wasn't into dying that u left me alone.
>
Yeah, I eventually decided that you were too thick to help, so I stopped worrying :)
>
>Do u tie a knot in the end of the rope on a 20m sports climb where u can
>see or know the lower off?

Yes, if I'm climbing to loweroffs there's a knot in the end, if I'm climbing to a belay the rope is tied to my partner.

>I reckon your in fruit cake territory if u do.

Wearing a helmet is a bit annoying, tying a knot in the end of the rope has a MAJOR safety benefit with no downside. Can you tell me one good reason why you wouldn't have a knot it the end?

shortman
6/10/2012
7:16:14 AM
Yes. Coz I can count and see often these phenoms reveal that a knot is unneccesary.

Secondly, I like to avoid being obsessive compulsive about knots in the end of ropes. That is probably the best reason.

Wendy
6/10/2012
8:17:01 AM
On 6/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>>
>>Do u tie a knot in the end of the rope on a 20m sports climb where u
>can
>>see or know the lower off?
>
>Yes, if I'm climbing to loweroffs there's a knot in the end, if I'm climbing
>to a belay the rope is tied to my partner.

Bollocks - I've climbed with you without either of the above! I won't argue it's not a good idea, but there is also a need for observation and judgement. Take the mighty Tribute Wall. Maybe if I had a 20m rope, I'd tie a knot in the end there. On the other hand, a lot of the stuff at the Freezer, I'd go the knot or tie in because it's pretty marginal on a 50. Yes, tying a knot alleviates the problem. But also, if your belayer is not paying attention to the rope as they are lowering, they are not belaying safely and that's the basic issue underneath it. And yes, lots of experienced climbers can get pretty casual about this stuff and it does lead to accidents. Not tying in properly is another one.
>

shortman
6/10/2012
9:11:51 AM
On 6/10/2012 Wendy wrote:
>On 6/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>>
>>>Do u tie a knot in the end of the rope on a 20m sports climb where u
>>can
>>>see or know the lower off?
>>
>>Yes, if I'm climbing to loweroffs there's a knot in the end, if I'm climbing
>>to a belay the rope is tied to my partner.
>
>Bollocks - I've climbed with you without either of the above!

So your not a fruit cake then. Just a lowly liar, ;)

shortman
6/10/2012
9:19:34 AM
On 6/10/2012 Cliff D wrote:
>The point being that anyone can, and eventually will f--- up.

Wrong wrong wrong. Doesn't seem to go along with your point at all.

Edit: flippin fur burgers CliffD. You have edited your post. I give up.
widewetandslippery
6/10/2012
9:30:23 AM
I onluy have the attention span to tie a kot in one end of the rope and try to remember its the end going to my harness

Duang Daunk
6/10/2012
9:43:02 AM
Lowering off, what's that?
Its only a problem for spurt climbers so let the Darwin Awards take their course.
Penny
6/10/2012
10:09:31 AM

>
>Anyone out there who "double" checks their tie-in while climbing? How
>f---ed is that???

Yep. Bet your mate Dave does now too.

shortman
6/10/2012
10:14:21 AM
As soon as I am scared I reckon I check my tie in every few seconds.
Dr Nick
6/10/2012
11:08:34 AM
On 6/10/2012 Cliff D wrote:

>Anyone out there who "double" checks their tie-in while climbing? How
>f---ed is that???

I make it a point to double check the climber's knot, the belayer's device and both harnesses, whichever end of the rope I'm on. Only because I've caught myself with a half-tied knot, seen someone top out with a harness held shut by the convenience velcro (that was almost immediately removed), and been dropped by a reverse threaded GriGri.

I know I still miss this step sometimes, but it's prevented dodgy situations enough times that it's now habit.

PS my rope tends to stay tied to the rope bag so there's some kind of knot, but I'm using 60m ropes at Sydney crags - I think you'd be doing a girdle of the entire crag before you ran out of rope!
One Day Hero
6/10/2012
5:09:13 PM
On 6/10/2012 Wendy wrote:

>Bollocks - I've climbed with you without either of the above!

Haha, I gave up in the face of superior donkyness. Wasn't worried at all about you lowering me off the end of the rope. When I eventually go climbing with Shortman though.........

>Take the mighty Tribute Wall. Maybe if I had a 20m rope, I'd
>tie a knot in the end there. On the other hand, a lot of the stuff at the
>Freezer, I'd go the knot or tie in because it's pretty marginal on a 50.
> Yes, tying a knot alleviates the problem.

Still waiting to hear a single reason for not tying a knot.......how much time do you reckon it costs? 5 seconds?
One Day Hero
6/10/2012
5:16:33 PM
On 6/10/2012 shortman wrote:
>As soon as I am scared I reckon I check my tie in every few seconds.

That's a fuchin' fail, isn't it? Wouldn't it be better to check it properly on the ground then forget it and pay attention to climbing?

E. Wells
6/10/2012
6:00:24 PM
One single reason, so....you catch your friend sleeping with your wi...girlfr..er. .. lover. your lover. and they dont realise you saw, then your friend wants to go climbing at logan brae and do that 28 so you grab your 30mtr centenial glen special (blueys spurtpussy references) and you dont tie a knot in the end. Then she will love you again.

E. Wells
6/10/2012
6:01:00 PM
probably shouldnt joke about this crap acyually.....can I delete that?

Climboholic
7/10/2012
7:39:39 PM
On 5/10/2012 Wendy wrote:
>On 5/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>
>>What are you talking about? I'm even more impressed with McCloud's climbing
>>now, knowing that he tows that huge melon up all his ascents!
>>
>>By the way, Climbaholic wins some sort of prize for being the only person
>>so far to correctly identify that the cause of the acco was failure to
>>tie a knot in the end of the rope. Watching the pile of rope, Wendy?..........wtf?
>
>Well, i don't watch it slide through the bloody belay device!

Wendy, I was supporting your argument by offering the simple solution of tying a knot in the rope to eliminate human error. I know that ODH put you on the defensive but he makes a very good point. There is no reason not to incorporate the routine to tie the end of the rope.

> I'll chuck a knot in the end of them rope if, as I am watching pile the rope, it starts
>getting uncomfortably close to not be a pile of rope anymore. For that
>matter, if I'm getting lowered off a climb, i'll have a glance or two at
>the rope pile to make sure there's plenty of rope as well and remind my
>belayer about it.

I'm sure that you realise that watching the pile of rope so you can stop and put a knot in it while still on belay is nonsense. Why not tie the knot before the climber leaves the ground so you can concentrate on other poential risks instead???

> If either one of them had paid appropriate attention
>to the rope, it wouldn't have gone sailing through the belay device.

In my opinion it is the belayers job to pay attention to lowering the climber, not to watch the rope at their feet.

> Sure, a knot is fool proof, but if you are not a fool, being attentive is also
>highly successful. How many people have I lowered off the end of a rope
>again?
>

Anyone in industry involved with safety systems will tell you this goes against the principal of minimum practical risk! I know that on this site people tend to argue and defend their position for the sake of it, but as a guide I would expect you to take a professional approach to risk management. Routine procedures are a reliable way to achieve a minimum safety standard.

Remember that clients learn by example from what you do, not just what you say. They may not have the risk assessment skills and situational awareness that you have developed through experience.

I know from your posts that you think things through critically and logically. So you have probably already considered these points despite a bit of personal criticism levelled at you earlier.


shortman
8/10/2012
10:03:57 AM
On 6/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 6/10/2012 shortman wrote:
>>As soon as I am scared I reckon I check my tie in every few seconds.
>
>That's a fuchin' fail, isn't it? Wouldn't it be better to check it properly
>on the ground then forget it and pay attention to climbing?

Of course I check it on the ground. I was just saying to CliffD that I check it compulsively as soon as I'm scared. Paying attention to climbing when I'm scared if the last thing on my mind. It comes miles behind chucking a tanty, cursing myself and checking my tie in etc.

Don't be daft ODH - pay attention to climbing - isn't that what hard core people do?

I'm just a faffer.

 Page 2 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 85
There are 85 messages in this topic.

 

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