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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 74
Author
Climbers rescued Margarine Ridge Mt Hay 6.11.11
SteveH
6/11/2011
5:15:22 PM
Police report of a helicopter rescue off Margarine Ridge, Mt Hay, this morning after an unplanned bivvy. Well done rescuers, and glad the climbers are ok...

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150348584321394

"Two climbers were rescued from the Blue Mountains after spending the night in bushland near Mount Hay.

The climbers used a mobile phone to call Triple Zero (000) about 10.30pm yesterday (Saturday 5 November) when the 30-year-old man reportedly became dehydrated and was unable to continue.

A rescue helicopter located the man, and a 38-year-old woman, about 100m from the top of Margarine Ridge, but due to the landscape was unable to winch them out.

They spent the night in mild conditions until first light when the helicopter returned to the scene and winched the climbers to the top of cliff.

They were met by a ground team of three Police Rescue officers and two Paramedics who treated them at the scene for dehydration, before being walked out of the bush.

The climbers did not require any further medical treatment and itís believed theyíve returned to their homes in Sydney."
mikllaw
Online Now
7/11/2011
12:01:02 PM
Can the bods post further details so we can learn from the epic.

aarond
7/11/2011
2:38:02 PM
It is a bit of an epic climb. the guide makes it seems less committing than it is. it has stars and is grade 13... sounds like a good beginners long multi pitch to me, but not really.

the start is hard to find, its very committing, retreat after about pitch 4 would start to become very slow and hard. a bit chossy in places, a bit wandery in places, between many belays is a 10m scrub bash through steep bushy stuff...

Its a classic adventurous trad route!!

I would think alot of people who set out to do this on a nice summers day will finish at night and be dehydrated. I would think im an average paced climber and it took me 12 hours car to car, which 10 hours of that would have been spent out in the sun getting sooo dehydrated! i thought 3L of water was enough but i think i could have done with 6L.


Id be interested to know how many people have epics on this route?
Susanna
7/11/2011
3:37:44 PM
Hi there,
We started Margarine Ridge climb on 5/11/11, it was getting late and dark, my climber partner didnít feel ok and we were running out of water, so we decided to stop the climb and call triple 0. We left one rope behind at the start of pitch 8, please contact me if you find it. Thanks.
hipster
8/11/2011
9:23:33 AM
On 7/11/2011 Susanna wrote:
>Hi there,
>We started Margarine Ridge climb on 5/11/11, it was getting late and dark,
>my climber partner didnít feel ok and we were running out of water, so
>we decided to stop the climb and call triple 0. We left one rope behind
>at the start of pitch 8, please contact me if you find it. Thanks.

why call triple O? What was the emergency? It was a mild night, why not just sleep it out and cuddle up on a ledge. Been done many times before...
patto
8/11/2011
9:33:45 AM
On 8/11/2011 hipster wrote:
>why call triple O? What was the emergency? It was a mild night, why not
>just sleep it out and cuddle up on a ledge. Been done many times before...

They would still have the same issue the next day. Lack of water.
pharmamatt
8/11/2011
9:35:16 AM
I think its a bit unfair, they made a call on the basis he was likely dehydrated and running out of water. What would staying the night achieved? Could have they been better prepared, maybe.

becad
8/11/2011
10:04:12 AM
I did this climb in January this year. 32 degrees in Katoomba and I think close to 40 on the rock. We took 7L of water between 2 of us and drank another litre on the walk in. We put 3L on the half way ledge before we started the climb which reduced weight carried to that point. This was made a bit easier by being with someone who had done the climb a few times before hand.
The last time he had done it in mild weather it took 6 hours. It took us 13 on that day. Just slow going in the heat.
We ran out of water just before the end of the last pitch and had to take a rest/snooze in a little cave half way up the climb to get out of the sun.
It was a bit of an epic but very fun in retrospect.
I think the main thing is to prepare to be out in the blazing sun all day. If you were walking in full sun over 30 degrees for 12 hours you'd get through 4 -5 litres, so why think you would need less for that amount of climbing.......
I think we try to underestimate how much we will need whilst climbing because it is heavy and most of the climbs in Aus are pretty short. There just aren't that many climbs that truly take all day.

stugang
8/11/2011
10:25:52 AM
On 8/11/2011 becad wrote:

>I think we try to underestimate how much we will need whilst climbing
>because it is heavy and most of the climbs in Aus are pretty short. There
>just aren't that many climbs that truly take all day.
>

good advice.

Davidn should heed it next time he has a woody session.

tnd
8/11/2011
10:53:07 AM
Water on its own is useless in these conditions. You need to make up electrolyte mix - Gatorade type powders or at least some sodium and magnesium salt if you don't want the sugar in the commercial products.

It's really pretty silly to be attempting MR in summer conditions. Leave it for spring or autumn.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/11/2011
11:09:10 AM
On 8/11/2011 tnd wrote:
>It's really pretty silly to be attempting MR in summer conditions. Leave it for spring or autumn.

It is spring now.
Temps in the Blueys were mid twenties that day.

Hmm, maybe dehydration can be a problem in lots of conditions; ... however I find it ironic that they spent the night on the climb anyway (as hipster suggests), even after calling for emergency help.


becad
8/11/2011
11:23:36 AM
Water is fine if you have food with sugar and salt in it too

tnd
8/11/2011
12:28:49 PM
On 8/11/2011 becad wrote:
>Water is fine if you have food with sugar and salt in it too
>
With respect, that's bollocks for a situation like MR on a hot day, in that it's too difficult to judge the amount of sugar and salt in the food and how much it's providing. Add to that the fact that your appetite can be suppressed when hot and thirsting, and it's hard to stop halfway up a pitch for a sandwich instead of a sip from a Camelback.

The sugar is irrelevant anyway apart from a bit of energy it provides, it's added to electrolyte mixes to make the salts palatable. It's the latter that enable correct hydration.


Andrew_M
8/11/2011
12:56:24 PM
On 8/11/2011 tnd wrote:
>On 8/11/2011 becad wrote:
>>Water is fine if you have food with sugar and salt in it too
>>
>With respect, that's bollocks for a situation like MR on a hot day...

True. But for something like MR then really NO salt is needed. Salt replacement during exercise is really only for serious hyponatremia. Drinking 6 or 7 liters of water in a climbing day ain't going to give you that.

>
>The sugar is irrelevant anyway apart from a bit of energy it provides,
>it's added to electrolyte mixes to make the salts palatable. It's the latter
>that enable correct hydration.

False. Sugar, in the correct concentration and ratio to salt, is absolutely essential for the intestinal glucose-sodium cotransporter to function (the reason why oral rehydration therapy works).
patto
8/11/2011
12:59:17 PM
On 8/11/2011 tnd wrote:
>On 8/11/2011 becad wrote:
>>Water is fine if you have food with sugar and salt in it too
>>
>With respect, that's bollocks for a situation like MR on a hot day, in
>that it's too difficult to judge the amount of sugar and salt in the food
>and how much it's providing. Add to that the fact that your appetite can
>be suppressed when hot and thirsting, and it's hard to stop halfway up
>a pitch for a sandwich instead of a sip from a Camelback.
>
>The sugar is irrelevant anyway apart from a bit of energy it provides,
>it's added to electrolyte mixes to make the salts palatable. It's the latter
>that enable correct hydration.
>
>

Yep. Before Gatorade was invented mankind had no way to combat dehydration and electrolyte replacement.

*roll eyes*
HumphreyG
9/11/2011
7:25:21 PM
On 7/11/2011 aarond wrote:
>It is a bit of an epic climb. the guide makes it seems less committing
>than it is. it has stars and is grade 13... sounds like a good beginners
>long multi pitch to me, but not really.
>
>the start is hard to find, its very committing, retreat after about pitch
>4 would start to become very slow and hard. a bit chossy in places, a bit
>wandery in places, between many belays is a 10m scrub bash through steep
>bushy stuff...
>
>Its a classic adventurous trad route!!
>
>I would think alot of people who set out to do this on a nice summers
>day will finish at night and be dehydrated. I would think im an average
>paced climber and it took me 12 hours car to car, which 10 hours of that
>would have been spent out in the sun getting sooo dehydrated! i thought
>3L of water was enough but i think i could have done with 6L.
>
>
>Id be interested to know how many people have epics on this route?


This kind of thing really pi**es me off, not aaronds post but what he's commented on. There seem to be quite a few climbs which have been sandbagged around the Blueys, and I think this whole incident is probably as a result of another sandbagging. A grade 13 climb - really that's not that hard - don't get me wrong I don't climb much above this but from anyone's perspective MR might be a good candidate for a re-assessment. Quoting ACA - Pitch 1 "one hard move protected by 0.3 cam on bad rock possible ground fall". I know most of the regulars on this forum climb way harder than I'll probably ever get to but for newer people climbing a grade 11 which should be a 15 (or a grade 17 which should be a 21 - it doesn't matter) is not really a safe option, when people find themselves out of their depth. To be fair, the authors of guide books cannot personally verify the grade of every single climb and yes it can be very personal/subjective based on ones own climbing abilities/styles (some like laybacking, some like jamming and all that) but I don't think challenging it is a bad thing.

Rant over, guys who got stuck, I'm on your side if that wasn't obvious (but you really should have taken enough water - I guess you know that now though).
patto
9/11/2011
7:57:55 PM
On 9/11/2011 HumphreyG wrote:
>This kind of thing really pi**es me off, not aaronds post but what he's
>commented on. There seem to be quite a few climbs which have been sandbagged
>around the Blueys, and I think this whole incident is probably as a result
>of another sandbagging. A grade 13 climb - really that's not that hard
>- don't get me wrong I don't climb much above this but from anyone's perspective
>MR might be a good candidate for a re-assessment. Quoting ACA - Pitch 1
>"one hard move protected by 0.3 cam on bad rock possible ground fall".
> I know most of the regulars on this forum climb way harder than I'll probably
>ever get to but for newer people climbing a grade 11 which should be a
>15 (or a grade 17 which should be a 21 - it doesn't matter) is not really
>a safe option, when people find themselves out of their depth. To be
>fair, the authors of guide books cannot personally verify the grade of
>every single climb and yes it can be very personal/subjective based on
>ones own climbing abilities/styles (some like laybacking, some like jamming
>and all that) but I don't think challenging it is a bad thing.
>
>Rant over, guys who got stuck, I'm on your side if that wasn't obvious
>(but you really should have taken enough water - I guess you know that
>now though).

Grades are largely an indication of the technical challenge of the climbing moves involved. They generally do NOT involve other factors such as, degree of protection, difficulty to retreat from, total length, occasional chossiness, scub, hot weather, cold weather, long walk in, etc....

If you are making your assessment on the suitability of the climb for your level of skill purely on the grade then you are making a very big mistake. Likewise you might have climbed 25 trad but jumping but a 400m grade 12 could have you horribly out of your depth.

You need to assess the suitability of the climb for yourself. Its not about reading a number of a chart.

sbm
9/11/2011
8:59:51 PM
On 9/11/2011 patto wrote:
>
>Grades are largely an indication of the technical challenge of the climbing
>moves involved. They generally do NOT involve other factors such as, degree
>of protection, difficulty to retreat from, total length, occasional chossiness,
>scub, hot weather, cold weather, long walk in, etc....
>
>If you are making your assessment on the suitability of the climb for
>your level of skill purely on the grade then you are making a very big
>mistake. Likewise you might have climbed 25 trad but jumping but a 400m
>grade 12 could have you horribly out of your depth.
>
>You need to assess the suitability of the climb for yourself. Its not
>about reading a number of a chart.

Well actually Ewbank said: "Grading takes the following into consideration. Technical difficulty, exposure, length, quality of rock, protection and other smaller factors." I thought MR was graded 16.

Didn't some other poor guy get helicoptered off MR last summer with a serious head/back injury after protection blew on a lead fall? It does seem like the climb is starting to get a bit of a reputation. I've actually looked at the description and had it pinned as long, committing, don't-fall trad with lots of choss that I probably shouldn't be attempting to climb yet.
patto
9/11/2011
9:18:27 PM
On 9/11/2011 sbm wrote:
>Well actually Ewbank said: "Grading takes the following into consideration.
>Technical difficulty, exposure, length, quality of rock, protection and
>other smaller factors." I thought MR was graded 16.
>
>Didn't some other poor guy get helicoptered off MR last summer with a
>serious head/back injury after protection blew on a lead fall? It does
>seem like the climb is starting to get a bit of a reputation. I've actually
>looked at the description and had it pinned as long, committing, don't-fall
>trad with lots of choss that I probably shouldn't be attempting to climb
>yet.

I am aware of the Ewbank grading system. However I stand by that it is used as largely an indication of the technical challenge of the climbing moves involved.

Just because you onsighted Swinging (17) at Araps doesn't mean that you are even close to attempting Blade Ridge (17) on Federation.

I haven't climb MR so I can't comment on the validity of the grading however if you approach it with the mindset that it is only a 13 therefore it is easy then you clearly do not appreciate the full set of challenges associated with climbing.

(Though in my experience with the bluies, sandbagging is not a word that springs to mind. Many climbs are notably soft at the grade.)
One Day Hero
9/11/2011
9:35:23 PM
On 9/11/2011 HumphreyG wrote:
>
>This kind of thing really pi**es me off, not aaronds post but what he's
>commented on. There seem to be quite a few climbs which have been sandbagged
>around the Blueys, and I think this whole incident is probably as a result
>of another sandbagging.

What brand of crack are you smoking? The sole cause of this stuff-up was a number in a guidebook????? The Blueys don't have stiff grades, on the whole they're pretty soft up there. Which squishy crag are you comparing to if you think Blueys grades are stiff? Try climbing long trad routes at the 'Bungles, Booroomba, or Moonarie, you'll realise that Margarine Ridge is correct at 13.

The cause of this 'incident', as far as I can tell, was a couple of woefully underprepared and undercomitted bumblies trying to do a route which was too big and hard for them, on a day where a sensible person would not go anywhere near a north-west facing wall!! This thing is not a summer route! What the hell is with all the clowns discussing whether 5 or 10L of water is needed? If you need 5L of water, then its too fuching hot to climb the thing! Come back in April and it'll actually be fun.

A grade 13 climb - really that's not that hard
>- don't get me wrong I don't climb much above this but from anyone's perspective
>MR might be a good candidate for a re-assessment.

If you don't climb much above that, then it is hard (for you). Why do shankers who max out on grade 16 expect that 13's have to be easy? When I'm climbing 3 grades below my maximum, I expect to be working pretty bloody hard to stay attached..........I would take a 9 pitch route which is 3 grades below my maximum rather seriously.

Also, on a more constructive note, when the guidebook says "take a #5 camalot for the top pitch".............it means "take a #5 cam or solo the top pitch"

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There are 74 messages in this topic.

 

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