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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 64
Author
Another Arapiles Accident
kieranl
16/02/2003
10:01:16 PM
Dalai, I regret the perceived aggression. The intemperance of Jark's initial post really angered me. I actually tried to temper my response but it obviously didn't work. That is not an excuse for how my reaction came across.
I was actually careful in what I said. I said that I had chopped bolts in the past. The only reference to cold-chisels was commenting on jark's initial post.
It's like the mistake I made about one of the previous posts in this forum. I read into it more than was said.
Dalai
17/02/2003
9:44:00 AM
Hi Kieren,

no worries, we are all passionate about climbing which can show in our responses......

Cheers Martin

Rich
17/02/2003
3:34:51 PM
Not making light of it in the slightest but hey its trad.. Hope Paul recovers quickly..

No-one really mentioned and I'm sure I'm prob talkin to the wrong audience but Rockies' post mentioned that Paul fell whilst tugging on gear (when it popped out unexpectedly). Just thought I'd mention it for those who haven't been climbing all that long is that if you want to test gear that requires to be yanked on (could be lifted etc) make sure you will not fall off it comes out! That is, get yourself balanced and a solid hold (if poss) and pull on it with the expectation that it could come out, especially on climbs such as Missing Link.

I had a mate who had a decent fall from doing the same thing (diff climb), luckily he didn't deck, so its surprisingly not uncommon.

Cheers guys
rockeys
24/02/2003
12:39:17 PM
Hi again,
Just got a letter from Paul. He says he is recovering well from his injuries that included fractured right arm/wrist, 13 rib fractures, and 37 fractures above the neck including right orbit, sinuses, and side, front and base of skull.

He says he hopes to climb again before long. Thats enough encouragement for me, as soon as they open up the climbing areas in the ACT again im back on a rope too.

Check out his story on his website... http://users.bigpond.net.au/pb/
kieranl
25/02/2003
10:48:26 PM
I hope he does well. Kieran
mikl law
28/02/2003
1:22:43 PM
I think it's good that there are bold climbs. It's a privilege to belong to a sport where you can die

I don't really want to do bold climbs anymore, "I'm too old to die young"(Robin Storer). But to make everything safe would be a pity. It always seems odd that most of the death routes are below 20 though. Having a good retreat from the top of ML is cool, adding bolts to it wouldn't be.

We have a saying in racing, "The throttle works both ways". Assessing risk is more important in climbing than just pulling down, you can do that on a door lintle.
dantheman
25/01/2004
12:59:35 PM
i led Missing Link when it was at my limit. I didnt think it was particularly run out but i now realise that i went the way that had the large wire a couple of metres after the seam. I led it on a single rope and had a lot of rope drag at the top of the climb. Luckily the climb gets a bit easier at the top. Most climbs will become more dangerous if you miss a crucial gear placement just as most climbs will increase in difficulty if you miss a crucial hold. We choose to do this potentially dangerous activity and take responsibility for ourselves the moment we decide to go climbing. Trad climbing can be run out and genuinly dangerous, it allows us to discover things about ourselves that are hard to realise in a safe environment. We discver where our limits are and develope good judgement, hopefully without having a major accident. Unfortunately people do have accidents and it is this potential that for me makes climbing challenging and genuinly worth while. if this potential for death/injury were not a part of climbing i think that i would not discover so much about myself whilst doing the activity and it would have less meaning to me. My condolences go out to all the people adversly effected by climbing accidents but we make the choice to climb ourselves and i am grateful that i am able to make these choices.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/01/2004
9:55:08 AM
On 25/01/2004 durvan wrote:
>Trad climbing can be run out and genuinly dangerous, it allows us to discover
>things about ourselves that are hard to realise in a safe environment.
>We discver where our limits are and develope good judgement, hopefully
>without having a major accident.

Good judgement requires constant vigilance.

I scared myself spitless the other day by repeating a climb I have often led, and out of 'concern' for the newbie I had in tow, ran it out a little on a layback flake so they would not get pumped senseless trying to recover gear.
When I came to place the gear I found myself crossed up and with the essential piece on the 'difficult' side of my harness to obtain ... I could feel myself fading so I chose to climb on to the jugs above.
The result was a 10m groundfall potential on to a sloped ledge above a 60m dropoff, before I obtained secure pro.
This is more runout than I prefer, and what I marvel at is the thought that I considered my experience such that I had developed good judgement.

I am still learning that gravity is no respector of any amount of experience!

JamesMc
17/04/2004
8:35:06 PM
I may be mistaken, but I think the first ascent of Missing Link was done with a bolt. It's near the top, and way right of the where the route goes these days.

Great climb the way it is. Part of the fun is working out where to go that's safe.

James Mc
prb
19/04/2004
11:28:28 PM
I feel a certain responsibility for this old thread so maybe I should contribute. I guess trying to work out the precise reasons for accidents and how they might be avoided is what it's all about…

We'd climbed Morfydd so I suggested wandering up Ali's to have a crack at Missing Link, a route I'd wanted to get on for years. Up top, the wind was howling through The Bluffs which could have been a factor in my downfall. Another factor, I'm embarrassed to say, might have been overconfidence. I was feeling strong, had been leading harder grades with some ease, and started up ML with no fear whatsoever. It was a genuine onsight attempt. I could tell pro went in the seam at 3m, but then thought you headed diagonally up R to a marginal placement or two. It was up there in the no-fall zone that I popped off when, evidently, a placement I was testing pulled. Of course we brace for that possibility but I would have been somewhere thinnish and perhaps a gust came through. I rotated, came down head first, and am lucky to be alive and walking.

Should've toproped it first like Reg Williams!

So where did I go wrong? Well, not falling would have helped. But I wish I'd spotted the large wire placement hard R of the seam referred to in this thread. I never saw it and must have climbed diagonally above it. In the several photos of ML I'd seen, the climbers were using a single rope. On the cover of the guidebook, for example, the climber has a single rope (and I could be wrong but it looks like he's bypassed the big wire as well!) Had I seen double ropes, I might have twigged about the lateral spread of the placements. Maybe the next guidebook could say something like "move R to a good wire, double ropes recommended". Some would argue that's giving too much information, the challenge being to work it out for yourself. But most guidebooks, including those of Mentz & Tempest, include details of pro for some climbs, and I would suggest that ML is a good candidate for this treatment. I wouldn't like to see a bolt go in ML because of me.

Anyway, a heartfelt thank you to Luke, Grant, Warwick and everyone involved in getting me off the mountain, particularly the volunteer rescuers. Way beyond the call of duty, owe you my life. Never thought I'd be the guy in the helicopter!

I'm well and out at the crags again, a stiff right wrist being the major physical legacy. I'm still wrestling a few demons on trad leads, but I'm slowly improving. I'll have to give ML another try (it's a classic!)
dalai
20/04/2004
10:00:39 AM
Glad to hear you are back on the road to recovery.

Cheers Martin

Donut King
20/04/2004
1:52:53 PM
good for you prb.

nice post.....

Rupert
20/04/2004
2:43:03 PM
On 19/04/2004 prb wrote:
> I'll have to give ML another try

I cant even imagine how much courage that would take after what you went through. Good luck with it all.
gfdonc
13/09/2006
2:45:40 PM
(bump!)
Prompted by a PM from prb (thanks) I looked up this old thread.
Did Missing Link on Monday after having it on my list for many years but the moons of confidence and opportunity never aligned until this week.

My $0.02 worth for those who are interested:
Disagree with Neil's earlier comments regarding stars, this is a 3 star route in my book. The rock is fantastic, position sensational and the climbing makes you think all the way.

Regards pro - climbed this on double ropes with lots of 60cm slings. Ropes ran well. You get a good wire low in the crack then another wire and small cam if you like (green alien) higher. The step right from the crack is tricky and then gear is sparse - I think I placed 2 RPs in the next few metres, I doubt a groundfall was ever on the cards but I wasn't keen to fall off. Eventually got a couple more wires in and the pro kept getting better. There's bomber 3 and 4 hex placements higher up but few places for cams, nothing bigger than a 2 Friend that I saw.

The main tip would be to take your time and work out the moves - they aren't all obvious. Also make sure your belayer is used to handling double ropes.
prb
13/09/2006
4:58:03 PM
Thanks for the beta gfdonc - you haven't ruined my onsight that's for sure. Actually, I feel quite relaxed about giving ML another try but my likely belayers don't want a bar of it!

Froctoberfest worries me a lot more than ML these days.

cheesehead
14/09/2006
12:42:53 PM
>Froctoberfest worries me a lot more than ML these days.

Hopefully you think your moves through first, and protection is easier to find than on ML
One Day Hero
18/09/2006
6:19:07 PM
While we're talking about chisels, what do you say we prune those gayarse homo rap bolts which get you down from the bottom of anxiety to scorpion corner? It used to be such a nice choice; downclimb a grade 5 or take three minutes to walk around the back. Now it's all retro-sanitised and no one can use the place to learn how to think.
One Day Hero
18/09/2006
6:25:03 PM
whoops, didn't realise it was two pages, the bolt chopping bit was ages ago. Nice work from kieran and martin though, to turn another unrelated issue into bolt wars.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/12/2008
12:46:29 PM
Old thread revisited (apologies for the hijack), due to an experience-link I had yesterday ...

On 30/01/2004 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>[On 25/01/2004 durvan wrote:
>>Trad climbing can be run out and genuinly dangerous, it allows us to discover
>>things about ourselves that are hard to realise in a safe environment.
>>We discver where our limits are and develope good judgement, hopefully
>>without having a major accident].
>
>Good judgement requires constant vigilance.
>
>I scared myself spitless the other day by repeating a climb I have often
>led, and out of 'concern' for the newbie I had in tow, ran it out a little
>on a layback flake so they would not get pumped senseless trying to recover
>gear.
>When I came to place the gear I found myself crossed up and with the essential
>piece on the 'difficult' side of my harness to obtain ... I could feel
>myself fading so I chose to climb on to the jugs above.
>The result was a 10m groundfall potential on to a sloped ledge above a
>60m dropoff, before I obtained secure pro.
>This is more runout than I prefer, and what I marvel at is the thought
>that I considered my experience such that I had developed good judgement.
>
>I am still learning that gravity is no respector of any amount of experience!

I repeated this climb (Fat Wall Ordinaire Banana Blasé, a short two star Buffalo classic), yesterday, and placed three or four bits of pro between me and the deck on the layback flake.
Due to over trusting my feet (that could have been better placed), I took a totally unexpected fall from just above the flake while making the next move ... ~> obviously forgot my 2004 remark of "constant vigilance"!
This brought back memories of what could have been..., due my previous runout on this section; and simultaneously focused my mind and took some wind out of my sails all at the same time.
Once the adrenalin wore off, the rest of the climb went slowly and carefully.
Normally when I top out this climb I usually feel that it is over too soon, as I am just starting to flow with its rhythm. Yesterday when I topped out I felt that it was a good length and was happy to have done it without looking for more...

As I get older I am learning that one can never be too careful ...

Thanks Jim for the attentive belaying, and use of the bit of pro that held the fall.
Thanks Andy for the use of your rope.
It is appreciated, and I am glad you enjoyed following it.

gordoste
8/12/2008
1:42:23 PM
was it reaching up to the undercling? always struck me as potential fall spot

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There are 64 messages in this topic.

 

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