Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop
FREIGHT FREE
in Australia

Set of 11 "Wallnuts" (1 to 11) N/B NEW Anodized colours!!! New "lighter" version. Steve's favourite wired Nuts.  $169.00
15% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 74
Author
Complete rupture of A2 pulley

stugang
26/05/2011
9:03:21 PM
On 26/05/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 26/05/2011 climbingjac wrote:
>>I've completely ruptured my A2 pulley in my left ring finger.
>
>That is a bugger.
>:-(
>
>Would wearing a wedding ring as a splint help it heal?
>;-)

Why not. Marriage cured all my pulley problems.

P.S. No Dude - that is not what I meant.
crazyjohn
26/05/2011
10:19:17 PM
Sorry to hear this Jacs(this is Ms. Bernardi I assume) :) . Some of the advice so far is ok. Some is absolute shit. Let me tell the full story. I have ruptured finger pulleys several times and perhaps complete ruptures. I dont know. I only had one ultrasound done years ago on the first pulley injury and they told me I would be crippled for life, blah, blah, blah. I healed within two months and was climbing within two weeks. Be careful of your diagnosis. Perhaps a second opnion would be wise.

I completely ruptured the UCL in my thumb in February this year. I went for an ultrasound because I was worried about a stenor lesion. Look it up if your interested. Basically a SL cannot possibly EVER heal without surgery, so I had surgery (Thanks Australia!). Now Im climbing 80% strength again, except I just ruptured the A2 in my pinky somehow!!! AHHH!

Well anyway, the point is that the surgery only put me out 2 months. The surgery you get (if you go that route) will put you out the same amount of time. It is the same surgery. Actually mine is more complicated because of the dislocation of my thumb. The outside of my thumb is still stiff whereas I can load 100% on my thumb with no pain in the ligament(inside where the surgery was).

However! Surgery is PROBABLY not necessary. You should talk with Julian Saunders. http://www.drjuliansaunders.com/ If you cant see him in Sydney he can do a skype consultation. Its worth it.

If you decide to heal yourself, which is probably a good idea, the article below is awesome! Im using the advice on my pinky right now. It is what Julian will probably tell you to do as well. I know because I camped next to him a couple years ago in the gums and he suggested this to Deano.

http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/2010/05/pulley-injuries-article.html

This link goes to Dave Macleod's website and he is smart. This stuff really works. Dont lose hope, girl! Its not over! Good luck. And I would spend the money to talk to Julian and maybe a second opinion from other imaging people before seeing a surgeon. Dont get sucked in by bored imaging folks who see something interesting and want to start cutting away! Maybe Julian knows an imaging place in Melbs that has dealt with climbing injuries?

-cj
climbingjac
26/05/2011
10:44:33 PM
Not Bernardi - I'm a different Jac.

Yep no solid decisions to be made this week.

Xrays & Ultrasound have been done nice and fast on the orders of the emergency dept. We'll see how the consulting specialist deciphers the results and go from there (ie decide who I want to talk with about my options). At the moment I simply know what the ultrasound folk say they have found in their images.
kieranl
26/05/2011
11:07:31 PM
Hi Jac,
What a bugger!
Hopefully the injury is not as bad as the imaging people say. I've seen a few occasions with different types of imaging where the radiologists have been making dire diagnoses and the specialists just look at the images and say "oh it's not that bad".
I'm not going to presume to give any advice. I've had a partial pully tear and I treated it (with the help of my in-house physio) conservatively and worked on it and it came out good. But that was my injury and not yours.
I guess you'll be hunting out some hand specialists and sorting out the best thing to do over the next few days.
Good luck.
JDB
27/05/2011
9:06:19 AM

>- I don't remember massive bowstring but it did swell up badly and i couldn't
>climb anything harder than 20 for at least 3 months.

I must have been born with bowstringing ligaments..I've spent a life-time not being able to climb above 20!

Jokes aside, I'd have to question the wisdom of climbing through an injury like Jac's.
It makes sense to me to have a lengthy initial lay off then a gentle re-introduction back into climbing. I suspect the consequence(s) of climbing through the injury that one actually extends the length of time of complete recovery (I'm happy to be corrected on this)
I also know how difficult it is psychologically for a climbing enthusiest to take a long break.

nmonteith
27/05/2011
9:13:25 AM
I learnt (the hard way) to warmup before having a go at a bouldery project as the first climb of the day! I found routes with slopers even more painful to climb than routes with crimps after the injury. Juggy steep routes or really easy routes were all i could climb for quite some time.
climbingjac
27/05/2011
9:26:01 AM
Oh but I hate juggy steep routes hahahahaha
crazyjohn
27/05/2011
10:32:06 AM
On 27/05/2011 JDB wrote:
>I've spent a life-time
>not being able to climb above 20!
>
>It makes sense to me to have a lengthy initial lay off then a gentle re-introduction
>back into climbing. I suspect the consequence(s) of climbing through the
>injury that one actually extends the length of time of complete recovery
>(I'm happy to be corrected on this)

This used to be a problem with climbing. Everyone has their own "suspicions" and anecdotal evidence about injury recovery. However, the links I gave to Julian (best climbing osteopath in Oz) and Dave's pulley article(an article derived from most if not all of the journal published medical surveys and rehab done on actual climbing pulley injuries) both will tell you to not stop climbing. There is an initial rest period of a week or two. I rested my pinky by not climbing routes for about a week(but still training!) and have climbed 25 without pain after 8 days from injury using tape and a stick as a splint.

Letting the finger do nothing will only prolong the injury. Of course, mine is a weird pinky injury and yours is the ring finger. Ring fingers take awhile. You may have to COMPLETELY lay off bouldering and route climbing for a few weeks except for maybe routes you have dialed so well you can climb them without strain on your finger. The last A2 ring finger injury I had was from Ethiopia a couple years ago. I was lucky enough to be living at Araps and after a week of rest I was doing tons of easy soloing with no pain. That really helped the recovery! If you dont want to move to Araps to go soloing for a month, you can still train!

Athletes train and perform through injury all the time. You can still work core, slabs, train on a hangboard, etc. You can actually get stronger while injured! Take the time to focus on boring stuff you would never have done before because you would have went climbing. Your core can never be strong enough! What about taking photos of all those nice people who belayed you day in and out(and took photos of you!) while you were fit?

There is more than one reason why the quoted climber has never climbed past 20. Some people's bodies are just hopelessly screwed up. However, I think the lack of progression in sport and inability to overcome injury in the vast majority of people is due to mental weakness. Myself included here!! Most of my life Id rather drink and party rather than train. I did a little more research on pulley surgery. It is almost NEVER performed on single complete ruptures. Just follow Dave's program, especially using the Lewis Effect in a cold water bathe and the deep friction massage method. I did a cold water bath followed by DFM last night and my pinky feels great this morning! And dont stop training!

nmonteith
27/05/2011
10:42:05 AM
On 27/05/2011 climbingjac wrote:
>Oh but I hate juggy steep routes hahahahaha

Its a good excuse for us thuggers to stay away from crappy crimpy routes!
pecheur
27/05/2011
10:49:54 AM
On 27/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>
>Its a good excuse for us thuggers to stay away from crappy crimpy routes!

Hey now that's a good excuse: "I don't do crimpy routes because of potential finger injuries"

Has there been any studies done on what type of routes lead to the most injuries? Or what type of routes are linked to what type of injuries since intuitively there should be some correlation?
Wendy
27/05/2011
11:01:28 AM
On 27/05/2011 pecheur wrote:
>On 27/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>>
>>Its a good excuse for us thuggers to stay away from crappy crimpy routes!
>
>Hey now that's a good excuse: "I don't do crimpy routes because of potential
>finger injuries"
>
>Has there been any studies done on what type of routes lead to the most
>injuries? Or what type of routes are linked to what type of injuries since
>intuitively there should be some correlation?

I reckon there's a very low correlation between overhanging offwidths and injuries!

I don't do crimpy routes because of former finger injuries! There's a whole world of climbing out there without doing stuff that I know has high potential for injury - from my experience and that of others. For example, Crystal Vision (fingery face) is probably the easiest 26 at Araps. I did it with 1 fall first go. I haven't got back on it because my fingers were stuffed afterward (tendonosis, not acute injuries). However, I was able to do Procul Harem 3 months after my pulley injury with no dramas - not a small hold on it. There's a lot to be said for picking routes that avoid injury.

I did climb through my finger injury - maybe 3 weeks of only guiding (like climbing tiptoe and dmajor), 3 weeks of only cracks, then moderate juggy faces, then a trip to thailand after 4 months - lots of finger friendly stuff at tonsai in the early 20s.

ajfclark
27/05/2011
11:15:07 AM
On 27/05/2011 pecheur wrote:
>Has there been any studies done on what type of routes lead to the most injuries? Or what type of routes are linked to what type of injuries since intuitively there should be some correlation?

The force on the pulleys while crimping is far greater due to the angles of the force. I can't find a great picture that explains it, but here's one from Biomechanical Properties of the Crimp Grip Position in Rock Climbers:



As you can see in the first image, the tendon is pulled hard against the top of the A2 pulley. If this the hand was closed to a full, dip joint hyperextended crimp, it angle would be even worse.

If the force on the pulleys is far greater, logically it follows that the incidence of pulley injury while using this grip would increase.

The good Dr
27/05/2011
11:22:51 AM
I vote with Wendy. Good way to stay fit with that type of injury is top go and climb old school cracks. I am sure you are up for that :-)
bones
27/05/2011
12:19:00 PM
On 27/05/2011 The good Dr wrote:
>I vote with Wendy. Good way to stay fit with that type of injury is top
>go and climb old school cracks. I am sure you are up for that :-)

Not true! I stuffed my shoulder trying to get out of an awkward position in an flaring offwidth thing. Trench warfare might save your A2 but it will stuff all the other tendons you've never used before

Eduardo Slabofvic
27/05/2011
1:05:25 PM
I used putty and rubber bands for recovery. Putty to squeeze and rubber bands around the outside of your fingers for extension, and lots of massage with peppermint oil. It will come good again.
Dave.k
27/05/2011
1:52:42 PM
Could everyone here make a quick comment about *how* their injuries occurred. i.e.

1) HOLD TYPE: crimp, open hand, cling, pinch, sloper, jug
2) MOTION: pulling hard, unexpected foot slip, dyamic move to the hold, static
3) MEDIUM: on rock, on plastic, on a hangboard, opening the fridge door / carrying shopping bags
4) CONSEQUENCES: popping sound, inflammation, nothing until the day after, didn't realise until the next time you went climbing, general tenderness
5) LOCATION: A2 Distal, A2 Proximal, A1, C1 (refer to diagram on P1)

this might help us all understand the unique nature of each persons injury type, and thus the applicability of each persons experience.

Thanks!
Wendy
27/05/2011
2:03:35 PM
On 27/05/2011 Dave.k wrote:
>Could everyone here make a quick comment about *how* their injuries occurred.
>i.e.
>
>1) HOLD TYPE: crimp, open hand, cling, pinch, sloper, jug

Crimp. Specifically, the little horizonatal breaky-pockety thing that is basically the second hold on On High.

>2) MOTION: pulling hard, unexpected foot slip, dyamic move to the hold,
>static

Pulling hard. Specifically, already well cranked down, not quite able to reach the big undercling and about to grab the cam hanging out of it instead. Told self not to be a pussy and crank harder.

>3) MEDIUM: on rock, on plastic, on a hangboard, opening the fridge door
>/ carrying shopping bags

Arapiles was rock last I knew about it.

>4) CONSEQUENCES: popping sound, inflammation, nothing until the day after,
>didn't realise until the next time you went climbing, general tenderness

Loud pop, pain, scream, fall off. Get Anthony to lead easy gully escape and woefully climb out of it mostly one handed.
>5) LOCATION: A2 Distal, A2 Proximal, A1, C1 (refer to diagram on P1)
>
Presumably A2. Left ring finger. Completely undiagnosed by anyone with any real idea what they are talking about.

gfdonc
27/05/2011
2:39:54 PM
On 27/05/2011 Dave.k wrote:
>1) HOLD TYPE: crimp, open hand, cling, pinch, sloper, jug
Undercling, small jug.

>2) MOTION: pulling hard, unexpected foot slip, dyamic move to the hold,
>static
Pulling hard while moving up.

>3) MEDIUM: on rock, on plastic, on a hangboard, opening the fridge door
>/ carrying shopping bags
Plastic. However, carrying shopping bags is very hazardous imho.

>4) CONSEQUENCES: popping sound, inflammation, nothing until the day after,
>didn't realise until the next time you went climbing, general tenderness
Pop. Stop climbing. Ice.

>5) LOCATION: A2 Distal, A2 Proximal, A1, C1 (refer to diagram on P1)
As advised.

Eduardo Slabofvic
27/05/2011
2:58:29 PM
Closed crimp
hard pull ( finger started wobbling so I thought I'd pull harder to make it stop - which was kinda successful)
Plastic (I'm so embarrassed)
Cracking like a greenish twig
Dislocated first knuckle, swelling to twice its size, I couldn't close that finger (right ring finger) for a few weeks, no bowstringing
Diagnosed as "finger tweak" by wise old climbing partner
chalkischeap
27/05/2011
3:02:01 PM
Sorry to hear about the injury Jac.

Most people seem to get over this one without surgery - taping & bumbling for 3 to 5 months. The A2 ring finger pully is a design flaw and a real nuisance. Mine took 5 months to recover. My solution is preventative taping. The gurus say this is nonsense but in my experience:

17 years preventative taping + manic crimping = zero injuries
(sample size =1)

You just have to get the tape tight enough. (i.e. it makes your finger turn purple if you don't start climbing straight away to stretch the tape a little). Its like insurance. Tape up tight and crimp till your eyes pop out.

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 74
There are 74 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints