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Accident at Arapiles: November 9th

Wendy

24-Nov-2010
5:21:28 PM

On 24/11/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 24/11/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>>
>>Unless they have an accident and end up in hospital. If your injuries
>>are more severe because you weren't wearing a helmet then your choice
>to
>>not wear a helmet has had an impact on the rest of us.
>
>You gotta be kidding? By that logic, I should get stuck into everyone
>I see having a smoke, every fat dude eating a lot-burger, every kid not
>studying hard (cause he might end up on the dole), every teenage chick
>getting knocked up, everyone who is using a wobbly ladder to clean their
>gutters...........it goes on and on. Do you really want to live in a society
>where you get every single action scrutinised on the basis of how it has
>potential to economically affect everyone else?

That's a somewhat less politely worded version of my thoughts ... despite the popularity of moaning about nasty risk takers costing society when something happen, if anyone really wanted to complain, it should definately be about crappy lifestyles, smoking and drinking, because the consequences of these fill our hospitals and the numbers are only rising. The govt's not funding massive campaigns to try and increase helmet wearing because the cost to society of climbers not wearing them is more miniscule than miniscule.

dalai

24-Nov-2010
5:37:57 PM

On 24/11/2010 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Hows the fella who bounced going?

Good question WWS, does anyone know?

As to the rest, please move it over to the helmet thread.

egosan

24-Nov-2010
10:32:46 PM

On 24/11/2010 dalai wrote:
>On 24/11/2010 widewetandslippery wrote:
>>Hows the fella who bounced going?
>
>Good question WWS, does anyone know?
>
>As to the rest, please move it over to the helmet thread.

Third hand from a week ago:

After the scary helmetless wack on the head, the bouncer was stumbling around the hospital getting his balance back. Most importantly he was on his feet. He is young and fit. He probably will come through fine.


shiltz

25-Nov-2010
10:53:42 AM

On 24/11/2010 Wendy wrote:
>Here we go again ... where does this assertion that bolts make climbing
>safer come from??? A bolt flew out of You're Terminated in the wind years
>ago. gfdonc posted about one unclipping itself. They can be in shitty
>places leaving you with bad falls, run outs, desperate clips and how the
>hell do bolts affect helmet wearing anyway?

I agree that bolts aren't always safe, can be poorly placed and hard to properly assess - I'm certainly not claiming they are perfect. You'd have to agree though that well placed bolts are very reliable. There are of course numerous mistakes that can be made clipping bolts but it is still simpler than learning to place good trad gear.
Anyway, here are a few more unfounded opinions to keep the debate rolling:
- I think "hard" climbers actually fall off a lot more often than beginner leaders.
- Despite this I think "hard" climbers are much less likely to be seriously injured in a fall because they understand gear placements (including bolts) and are often falling on steeper ground.
- I think beginner leaders are more likely to be injured in a fall due to poor gear placement, rope management and not considering what they might hit - ledges, chicken heads, etc.
- I don't think anyone could argue that a hard Arapiles face climb with shallow RP placements and long run-outs does not become a whole lot safer with a line of bolts up it and a stick clip ethic. Aside from the environmental objections to bolting most people also dislike the removal of risk where a trad ascent is possible and represents a greater mental challenge.

Since accident registers only track incidents where someone was seriously injured or killed I can't really back any of this up. It would be interesting to know how many falls are taken in an average weekend at Nowra and Arapiles and compare this against how many serious injuries occur.
Despite this, I enjoy climbing at Arapiles a lot more than Nowra and I am rarely fit enough to tackle anything harder than 24.


Eduardo Slabofvic

25-Nov-2010
11:39:29 AM

On 25/11/2010 shiltz wrote:
>
>Anyway, here are a few more unfounded opinions

Falling off is also a skill unto itself. And not all falls start out the same way, meaning sometimes you jump, sometimes you blow the move, sometimes you pop off when you're not ready, sometimes you just discover that you're airborne, gear may rip and you go further than expected, you've got a crap belayer and go further than expected, you're belayer is using a Gri Gri and you nearly die as a result of the bad habits they have developed from using the device incorrectly.


shiltz

25-Nov-2010
11:59:24 AM

On 25/11/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Shiltz, you've gotten all confused. We're doing the helmet thing, the bolt
>thing is run on even weeks!

Bugger, I thought we were back to bolts this week. Anyway, if I stayed on helmets I was going to be moved along to a different thread.


shiltz

25-Nov-2010
12:15:47 PM

On 25/11/2010 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>Falling off is also a skill unto itself.

A skill that I didn't really practise at all in my first few years leading. I'm still a long way from mastering it despite getting a lot more practise over the years.
I have first hand experience of having the rope wrapped around my arm, grabbing at and dislodging gear, getting inverted, pendulums and the resulting bruises, inactive gri gri belays resulting in sprained ankles, belayer as crash pad and many more I'd rather not remember.

hargs

25-Nov-2010
12:42:41 PM

> ... belayer as crash pad ...

I like this idea: I imagine leaders moving their belayers around like cricketers shifting sightscreens: "About a metre left...", waves hand, "back... that's right, just there, thank you."


shiltz

25-Nov-2010
12:49:26 PM

On 25/11/2010 hargs wrote:
>> ... belayer as crash pad ...
>
>I like this idea: I imagine leaders moving their belayers around like
>cricketers shifting sightscreens: "About a metre left...", waves hand,
>"back... that's right, just there, thank you."

Once they're in place I recommend anchoring them down so they can't opt out.

mikllaw

25-Nov-2010
1:34:50 PM

HUDT - brilliant!
I'm not going past 4 personally
Now all I need is a HUDT sucker


ambyeok

25-Nov-2010
1:44:49 PM

HUDT is worthy of its own thread where we can all submit amendments wiki style and ODH can lord it over us editing the list as when and if he feels.


gordoste

25-Nov-2010
1:59:08 PM

>As you can see, it would be hypocritical of me to climb in the Dolomites at all and still round on people for clip fumbling and suss belays at Nowra.....so I don't do it! If Macca wishes to climb death-choss, thats his choice. I just wouldn't hang around to watch.

Totally agree with you. However if you're belaying on the route next to it you can't leave. If you read my previous post I clearly stated that I don't care what you do, as long as I have the opportunity to bugger off when it makes me jittery.

Wendy

25-Nov-2010
3:33:01 PM

On 25/11/2010 shiltz wrote:
>On 25/11/2010 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>>Falling off is also a skill unto itself.
>
>A skill that I didn't really practise at all in my first few years leading.
> I'm still a long way from mastering it despite getting a lot more practise
>over the years.
>I have first hand experience of having the rope wrapped around my arm,
>grabbing at and dislodging gear, getting inverted, pendulums and the resulting
>bruises, inactive gri gri belays resulting in sprained ankles, belayer
>as crash pad and many more I'd rather not remember.

In your own way, you're far more experienced at falling than I am ... other than one complete tumble roll down the cliff I took as a 16 year old idiot (no helmet, hadn't even heard about them), all I ever do is relatively lots of rather little falls notable only for the volume of my screaming.


shiltz

25-Nov-2010
3:37:50 PM

On 25/11/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>4 - me leading Skink with a helmet on
>
>8 - me leading Skink without a helmet on
>

How about leading Skink with a bunch of newbies rapping down from above? It definitely contributes to the fear factor if nothing else.


Capt_mulch

26-Nov-2010
2:09:49 PM

Hey, who says you don't look sexy in a helmet? Good thing about it is it makes my nose look bigger too.

Gherkin, Blue Lake, Kosciuszko N.P. (Photo: Mike Law-Smith)


Capt_mulch

26-Nov-2010
3:28:22 PM

You know what they say, big nose, big feet. Big feet, big climbing shoes (47). You don't need to entice the semi neked island girlies, you need to have strategies for running away from them (I pity that poor seventeen year old bloke in PNG last week that was raped by ten women - the news report say that afterwards he felt f***ed).


ajfclark

26-Nov-2010
3:47:30 PM

Death by snu snu?


ajfclark

26-Nov-2010
4:09:16 PM

It's just starting back up again.


Miguel75

26-Nov-2010
4:14:28 PM

On 26/11/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>Death by snu snu?

That's funny! I met an Amazonian with hairy underarms the other day; she was handing out voting flyers.


ajfclark

26-Nov-2010
4:16:52 PM

Did you ask her about snu snu?

There are 105 messages in this topic.