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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 79
Author
My very first ground fall.
One Day Hero
13/05/2010
3:21:12 PM
On 13/05/2010 rolsen1 wrote:
>When I first read this thread I immediately thought of egosan having a
>big go at me recently on chocky for suggesting that learning to lead safely
>is something that takes a great deal of time (can't be bothered finding
>the thread and linking). At the time egosan suggested leading on trad isn't
>rocket science, and people like me are over cautious, maybe he'd voice
>a different opinion now, maybe not.

It's the attack of the toldyouso's!

I think egosan's initial assessment was correct, he's just made a bad example of himself by doing something stupid.

All the banging on about tactics and mental approach and stuff is missing the main point: You cannot lead gear routes safely unless you can locate, place and evaluate bombproof gear!

10 grades below your limit, leader must not fall, single rope, double ropes, ledgy ground on easy routes.....blah blah blah. If you place gear which you think is good and then find that it pulls out, the main deficiency which needs immediate attention is your skill at placing pro! Until you can place stonker gear everytime, you are rolling the dice on every lead.

Seriously, being unable to find great gear on an easy route at araps is a big problem. It will get more difficult at almost every other trad crag you'll ever visit.

Don't be scared of falling off, it'll help you get better. Do be scared of placing crap gear, if that habit gets ingrained you'll always be a dodgy climber
hargs
13/05/2010
5:14:21 PM
So who practices placing gear? I've heard Mikl suggest this a few times now, and I'm just wondering: how many people actually go out to the crag with the express intention of practicing gear placement, over and above actually climbing things?
One Day Hero
13/05/2010
5:35:39 PM
Do it on rest days, rainy days, your partner is lazy and went back to camp at 3pm days. You don't need to waste climbing time, it's pretty easy to learn this stuff good in spare crag time (even between routes whilst partner is faffing, eating lunch etc)

Also, bounce test all these practice placements to see if they're total crap or not. If you're scared to test a piece to bodyweight 0.2m off the deck, you should not be leading on gear!
egosan
13/05/2010
6:32:58 PM
I am glad I am not the only one that found noclimberboys comments off putting. I am however unwilling to pass them off as malicious or signs of moral defect, yet. The comments may have just been poorly composed and easily misread. God knows I have made enough obnoxious comments here that to condemn someone on their first go at me would be a bit hypocritical.

Speaking of hypocrisy, I in no way recant my comments to roslen1. Trad climbing is not rocket science. Let me clarify, I knew the placement was dodgy and I climbed above it anyway. Dumb. No way around it. Dumb. As much as I endeavor to not repeat this mistake, who is to say if I won't make different one at a later date? It won't stop me from climbing. Placing trad gear is not a PhD subject.

Hopefully, roslen1, you are leading trad climbs and finding satisfaction in doing so. Hopefully my error will give you and everyone else who reads about it a chance to learn my lesson at a smaller cost.

MonkeyBoy
13/05/2010
9:58:59 PM
On 13/05/2010 hargs wrote:
>So who practices placing gear? I've heard Mikl suggest this a few times
>now, and I'm just wondering: how many people actually go out to the crag
>with the express intention of practicing gear placement, over and above
>actually climbing things?

I have done and will continue to do so - I found climbing up an easy route pulling / weighting each placement with a top rope was amazing for learning about how force effects placements and also building confidence - I need more practice for sure.


will5686
13/05/2010
10:24:47 PM
On 13/05/2010 hargs wrote:
>So who practices placing gear? I've heard Mikl suggest this a few times
>now, and I'm just wondering: how many people actually go out to the crag
>with the express intention of practicing gear placement, over and above
>actually climbing things?

I am heading out to werribee with my boy and spanking new rack this weekend with the express purpose of learning to place gear, and then practice placing gear. I anticipate it is going to be the first trip of many, just so I can learn to place gear with relative confidence before heading out to arapiles or the grampians. I know how to climb, but I have never placed gear, I like being alive, and therefore I know what I need to practice :)

I should note that the boy has climbed trad before, so I am not going to just be teaching myself!

evanbb
14/05/2010
7:24:25 AM
On 13/05/2010 hargs wrote:
>So who practices placing gear?

I've done a bit of it and found it really useful. Here's some pics from a rainy day at Araps:




We essentially went through and placed the smallest wires we could to see what they would hold. The answer was a surprising amount.

Olbert
14/05/2010
7:44:41 AM
I remember my mate aid bouldering at the bottom of morphyd. He however did not have matts or an excessive amount of any climbing experience. A hand piece popped and he had no chance of removing his feet from the slings. Even though he was only a few feet off the ground he hammered himself pretty bad.

Of course the group of us sitting round were incapasitated for the next five minutes from laughing
sleake
14/05/2010
9:06:36 AM
That sure was funny wasn't it olbert. Would really hate to have been that guy!

Did teach me a few things though, downward placed nuts dont like getting pulled up vertically, groundfalls REALLY suck, rocks are stronger than my ribcage, Hamish is a rubbish spotter and none of you have any sympathy.
widewetandslippery
14/05/2010
9:56:32 AM
you blokes have way too much fun. My mate G on the weekend did some gear testing of 10mm dynas into 12mm holes (dunno where the 12mm bit got to). Unfortunately he was out of sight when they blew. Fortunately I got to hear the tirade of cursing and the sound of retribution by hammer to the rock.
grangrump
14/05/2010
10:52:28 AM
Yeah other people do it, probably not enough.
My preferred approach is to put newb on toprope while they aid the route (stand in slings: this means they need to find a placement every few feet and at least ensure it takes body wt. Also gives practice in cleaning.
Slightly more social than Mikl's way, albeit not enthralling...

Edit:
Evanbb's 'aid bouldering' approach could be good to, if you could ever find a granite boulder like that here...
rolsen1
14/05/2010
3:42:23 PM
On 13/05/2010 egosan wrote:
Let me clarify, I knew the placement was
>dodgy and I climbed above it anyway. Dumb. No way around it. Dumb. As
>much as I endeavor to not repeat this mistake, who is to say if I won't
>make different one at a later date? It won't stop me from climbing. Placing
>trad gear is not a PhD subject.
>Hopefully, roslen1, you are leading trad climbs and finding satisfaction in
>doing so. Hopefully my error will give you and everyone else who reads about
>it a chance to learn my lesson at a smaller cost.

Ok, to summarise.
- you started this thread so others could learn from your mistakes
- others have made suggestions so that you won't make the similar mistakes again yet you dismissed their advice as being obvious and clearly unhelpful
- you get upset when patronising comments are directed at you but you direct them at others
- leading is not rock science and you only had a ground fall because you are dumb
- you may hit the deck again

I know you don't want any advice but I'd suggest you at the very least subscribe to the ambulance if you haven't already.

evanbb
14/05/2010
3:55:47 PM
On 14/05/2010 rolsen1 wrote:
>you dismissed their advice as being obvious and clearly unhelpful
>- you get upset when patronising comments are directed at you but you
>direct them at others

I didn't see either of these bits. Mind reminding us of the quotes?
k
14/05/2010
4:22:17 PM
On 14/05/2010 rolsen1 wrote:
>Ok, to summarise.
>- you started this thread so others could learn from your mistakes
>- others have made suggestions so that you won't make the similar mistakes
>again yet you dismissed their advice as being obvious and clearly unhelpful
>- you get upset when patronising comments are directed at you but you
>direct them at others

Fair point, rolsen1.

jezza
14/05/2010
6:11:07 PM
I doubt Sol started this thread so others 'could learn from his mistakes' - what's there to learn from slipping, falling onto a badly set piece, and hitting the deck? I think Sol posted this because he wanted the cathartic experience of recounting a scary accident, and probably some attention. He's managed to get both. Also, Sol's not that big of a wanker. He just has an abrasive way of expressing himself. Kind of like me, which is probably why I'm fond of him.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
14/05/2010
8:10:23 PM
On 14/05/2010 jezza wrote:
>He just has an abrasive way of expressing himself. Kind of like me, which is probably why I'm fond of him.

Too bad you are not the right sex for his dating preference!

Chuck Norris
14/05/2010
8:47:28 PM
No matter what you all say I've learned something from this thread. Namely - use hexes and you die. Not a warm fuzzy death surrounded by family and loved ones but ugly painful death with bits of bone sticking out of orifices so new to man they have no name (though there probably is some guy in germany with a fetish website about them bitsa gristle).
egosan
16/05/2010
11:22:14 PM
Cathartic it was. The biggest personal benefit in writing an account was the way putting stuff into words forces me think rigorously about my topic.

Attention? Well, it is fun for a while.

As far as giving others an insight into my mistakes; I have reread my initial post I still like it. I hope some of you got something from it too.

I suspect anything else I might post will only rub more people the wrong way.

Cheers,
Sol

evanbb
17/05/2010
6:59:24 AM
On 16/05/2010 egosan wrote:
>I suspect anything else I might post will only rub more people the wrong
>way.

Is that how you're finishing it then? Typical.

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 79
There are 79 messages in this topic.

 

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