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Nasty biner flip ‘n’ unclip warning!

JDB

7-Dec-2009
8:54:32 AM

I'll put in my 20 cents worth....

I always clip my quick-draws with the larger of the two loops to the rope.

The logic being this allows more movement at that end of the draw.

Don't really know if that makes any difference ?


..::- Chris -::..

7-Dec-2009
9:19:53 AM

I have seen this before.... only more freaky!

Very short sport route in the Glenn I think the route was "Unplugged" but not sure as i was only watching... It was a short hard 26+ anyways... round the corner from horrace and paddington towards wave wall.

This guy was 3 clips in when he fell and still quite low to the ground so the beleyer was extremely tight in his catching and as a result the climber really swung into the wall quite hard...... As rope pulled tight and the climber came to a stop we all noticed the second quickdraw came undone (At the gate from the draw... same as Jen)... The gate spun down to the first draw leaving the just the sling and the straight gate on the bolt. It was lucky for this guy also as his top draw was fine but it would have been a really bad ground fall because of the angles etc...

THere was about 4 or 5 of us watching and we all concured that he had clipped the second draw correctly as we were all watching and a back clip sticks out, no one could explain it.

It was weird that the second draw though you'd think the top and bottem draw would stop the amount of slack required to unclip the draw....

Glad everyone is OK... but it's still a little bit scary to know this sort of thing could happen depending on angles rope out belayer stance etc....

widewetandslippery

7-Dec-2009
9:51:17 AM

On 7/12/2009 JDB wrote:
>I'll put in my 20 cents worth....
>
>I always clip my quick-draws with the larger of the two loops to the rope.
>
>The logic being this allows more movement at that end of the draw.
>
>Don't really know if that makes any difference ?

I do the exact opposite. The reasoning being with bolt plates, slings etc the top biner may need to be reoriented but the rope biner should be kept in its clipping position. I make sure the lower biner is held tghtly in the position.


..::- Chris -::..

7-Dec-2009
10:58:12 AM

On 7/12/2009 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I do the exact opposite. The reasoning being with bolt plates, slings
>etc the top biner may need to be reoriented but the rope biner should be
>kept in its clipping position. I make sure the lower biner is held tghtly
>in the position.

+1 fixed draw rope side. I do use screw gates if i'm worried (low to the ground, perhaps only 1 QD between me and the deck or just akward angled falls etc)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

7-Dec-2009
12:15:02 PM

On 6/12/2009 bagotup wrote:
>Brings us to the subject of screwgates in a quick draw combination.
>Anyone like to share what screwgates they find nice in this scenario.
>
I am old fashioned and use older style gear that gets used for more than one style of climbing.
Four of the six quickdraws I regularly carry on climbs are screwgate ovals on top and screwgate small 'D's at rope end.
This combo also suits the belays I set up on some trad and aid climbs.

@ gfdonc.
A point of clarification, ...
The straightgate on the ring still retained the quickdraw?, or did it float down the rope with the wiregate, leaving the straightgate behind?
(I read your OP as, only the wiregate was on the rope).

About the only thing I would have done differently, would be to rotate the straightgate on the ring so that its 'basket' was lowest.
~> Incidentaly this would have aligned both krabs in the same direction, but I am not convinced this is an issue in this case.

kieranl

7-Dec-2009
6:51:58 PM

I used to use Mammut twistlocks for failsafe clips. They were utterly brilliant. The sleeve could be locked into open or closed.
With the gate opening down the sleeve was pulled down, twisted and let go to change the lock setting. This was a simple one-handed operation for both leader and second. I've still got one somewhere but it's too old to keep on my regular rack. I also used to use them instead of regular screwgates and the one I have left has grooves from years of abseiling.
I'd buy them again in a flash.

gfdonc

7-Dec-2009
8:43:58 PM

On 7/12/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>@ gfdonc.
>A point of clarification, ...
>The straightgate on the ring still retained the quickdraw?, or did it
>float down the rope with the wiregate, leaving the straightgate behind?
>(I read your OP as, only the wiregate was on the rope).
>

Yes, correct. The solid gate biner and draw were connected on the ring. Curiously the 'loose' biner didn't slide down the rope, it was 'caught' by the leader (perhaps by being trapped, temporarily, between leg and rope).

darryn

8-Dec-2009
8:19:11 AM

On 6/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>I think that's why Black Diamond now advocate that biners on draws should
>face the same way - there is much less chance of something like that happening.

Is this black diamond advocation anywhere online? I'd like to read their reasoning. Biners facing the
same direction has always made more sense to me.


MonkeyBoy

8-Dec-2009
9:19:54 AM

Just throwing it in there but I recently changed all my biners to face opposite directions on my draws - At the time I noticed they were a mix ( and I wanted them all the same and uniform) and had a look for info about which it should be but couldn't really find any. So I thought about it while climbing one day and came to the decision that if the biners are opposing it would be easier to make sure the gate on the lower biner is facing away from the direction I am climbing.

mikepatt

8-Dec-2009
10:10:00 AM

Black diamond outlined their biner direction decision in a catalogue 3(?) years ago.

I like to have my draws with opposing biners for clipping bolt plates; I clip the nose thru the top of the bolt plate then rotate the top biner so that the spine is against the rock (with 45 degree plates)

I heard a few people talk about rotating the rope end biner but remember the that biner has been specifically designed for the rope to fall over the wide bottom bit (if that makes sense)

I've also got a few old petzl rubber bits which keep the rope biner positioned on the draw.

It's often difficult when onsighting to predict the left/right direction you'll take after a clip. Sometimes I'll reclip; often I just climb on.. it's interesting to watch a 'correctly' clipped biner flip over against the rock (i.e. horizontally) and end up as back clipped.

a screw gate or two certainly helps..

egosan

8-Dec-2009
10:28:46 AM

I started building my rack after the advent of Spectra dogbones. With the older wide Nylon
and bar tack style bones, I can see how the debate on matching v. opposite biners could
rage. However with my Spectra shoestring draws there is little to no torsional rigidity in the
system and the biner will rotate freely on its long axis. Makes the argument a bit moot, no?

mikepatt

8-Dec-2009
12:06:22 PM

On 8/12/2009 egosan wrote:
>I started building my rack after the advent of Spectra dogbones. With the
>older wide Nylon
>and bar tack style bones, I can see how the debate on matching v. opposite
>biners could
>rage. However with my Spectra shoestring draws there is little to no
>torsional rigidity in the
>system and the biner will rotate freely on its long axis. Makes the argument
>a bit moot, no?
>

It depends on your definition of moot! :-)

climbingjac

8-Dec-2009
12:31:10 PM

I agree simey :-) Like I said - I do not wear them any more hehehe. That said, the pockets were useful for carrying important chocolate provisions on multipitches. As such in the absence of pockets, I prefer single pitch climbing so I can get back to my chocolate stash on the ground after each bit of climbing effort :-)

gfdonc

8-Dec-2009
12:49:01 PM

I recommend you look at Simey's portrait in the Select guide when assessing any fashion advice that he may dispense on these forums.


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
12:59:48 PM

On 8/12/2009 darryn wrote:
>Is this black diamond advocation anywhere online? I'd like to read their
>reasoning. Biners facing the
>same direction has always made more sense to me.

One Day Hero

8-Dec-2009
1:27:21 PM

Say, Jen's looking pretty sexy in those photos....go Jen!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Dec-2009
3:06:15 PM

On 7/12/2009 climbingjac wrote:
>On one occasion, as I climbed past a quickdraw, it got caught on the underside
>of the lid of the pocket of my cargo pants, the quickdraw opened, manouvered
>itself and flicked the rope out. As a consequence, I always wear climbing
>pants that do not feature pockets. Especially not the kind that have the
>folderover velcro lids as per the cargo pants I wore that day.
>
I reckon cargo pants are great for climbing in, and use the pockets extensively. My only complaint is that the velcro lid opened one time while I was engaged in a rope manoeuvre and allowed my mobile phone to fall out.
:(


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
3:25:05 PM

On 8/12/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>I reckon cargo pants are great for climbing in, and use the pockets extensively.

I agree and if I don't wear them I need a second chalk bag to carry my smokes.

There are 38 messages in this topic.