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My ground fall in the Gramps


fruityarse

24-Jul-2003
7:27:11 PM

True James, properly placed equipment will hold a climber.

However - without sounding like a broken record, I do think that weight wtill plays a role. Considering other factors that come into play are all set - relative strength of rope, KN strength of pro - then the only remaining variable factor is climber weight which varies from climber to climber.

Is interesting to read others' point of view think about it!!!

Perhaps I have a psychological thing about using my weight as an excuse for my poor climbing performance.....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Rich

25-Jul-2003
10:06:41 AM

On 24/07/2003 fruityarse wrote:
>True James, properly placed equipment will hold a climber.
>
>However - without sounding like a broken record, I do think that weight
>wtill plays a role. Considering other factors that come into play are all
>set - relative strength of rope, KN strength of pro - then the only remaining
>variable factor is climber weight which varies from climber to climber.

Yep true enough. But as I said above, only when you're talking about the force limits of the weakest link (gear or rock usually). With well placed gear this is very unlikely to come into play in an 'everyday' fall whether the climber is 55kg or 85kg.

Cheers
Rich


The Blond Gecko

25-Jul-2003
11:36:39 AM

Actually, it all gets a little more complicated than that. Since dynamic ropes are designed to be elastic over quite a wide range, a heavier climber will fall further, but not necessarily all that much harder. Basically, the rope will keep stretching, exerting a very gradually increasing force on the climber until they stop (within the limits of normal use). So, in a fall that would give a peak load of (say) 10 kN with a 55 kg climber, the peak load may only be about 10.5 kN for someone weighing 85 kg rather than 15.5 kN as you'd expect if you neglected rope stretch. However, the tradeoff is that they'll fall quite a bit further before being pulled up.

Hope this helps,

Tristan


phil_nev

25-Jul-2003
1:50:49 PM

This topic has had almost 1200 views....... Impressive.

mikl law

25-Jul-2003
2:10:28 PM

There are so many factors involved that the only scientific principle you can apply is to be scared and not fall too much. In bike racing we say once you've fallen, it's a lottery. I saw a friend die on the safest corner in NSW (turn 3 Oran park), and have fallen in really bad spots (200kph inot walls) and limped away.

I'd say in (rough) order of importance :-
*skinny ropes and double ropes and gentle belays limit peak forces on gear.
*having the pull coming on axis of strength of gear is critical in poor placements
*Having too much tension in the system during a (potential) fall may mean you have a bit of outwards force on the gear before the downwards loads settle it in. You often get this if you have a worried belayer who sucks it in too much. It's the same as grabbing a poor cam from above, it may have held if you were below it..
*As Blond Gecko says, the load / distance thing is nonlinear. Fat bastards may go further and make a bigger hole when they hit.
*Easy choss is worst to fall on as you will hit something, and you don't think you need as much gear. Steep routes scare me and I over protect them

The worst crap can save your life, and bomber pieces have been known to fail. Safety isn't surviving once, it's you and all your mates still climbing when you're 60.

Mikl


IdratherbeclimbingM9

25-Jul-2003
4:10:03 PM

Well said Mikl.


fruityarse

25-Jul-2003
8:11:57 PM

wow, it has had lots of views! is fascinating stuff though...

Back to blond gecko's point - that as (best Mike Myers accent here) a Fat Bastard - I will fall longer as opposed to harder - surely then that means that the pro will be under more stress (time scale) than a lighter climber whose fall is shorter - and thus more likely to pop - UNLESS of course it is a bomber placement which we all agree will hold any climber irrespective of bodyweight.

Also agree with Mikl re fear. Have been parachuting with guys sh...cared of heights who have had to overcome this fear and jump. Fear keeps you alive!!! Although one could argue that life itself is a lottery, not just bike racing....

Nicely stated there Mikl

kieranl

29-Jul-2003
10:05:50 PM

No, no safety goggles though I had my ear-protection on.
The ride-on mower is about 20 years old and as rough as guts so any envy is mis-placed. It works but it's rough!
As a comment on other climbers weight concerns: I am currently overweight and unfit at 65kg. My optimum weight is 64kg. When alpine climbing I can drop to an emaciated 62 Kg.
It's not a flippant comparison. At 65kg I feel heavy. at 62kg I am permanently exhausted.
That's how my metabolism works. I am sure that there are women who would kill for this but my body doesn't like varying from its ideal weight.
I feel unwell if I i vary from my optimum weight. There's no choice: it's just how my metabolism works.
Kieran

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