Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

Author

Tribute Wall accident 11/09/2018

kieranl

24-Sep-2018
4:45:30 PM

On 24-Sep-2018 renq wrote:
>I happened to be the belayer of the climber on Hot Play (16) during this
>incident.
>
>After the climber easily top-roped Maiden China (15, directly left of
>Hot Play), we decided to give Hot Play a go on sport. The first bolt was
>stick clipped including rope and the second was stick clipped with a quickdraw
>only. After clipping the second, his waist was at the third bolt where
>he was struggling to get the third quickdraw in. He accepted he would take
>a fall. I didn't keep much slack in the system at that point sus of a ground
>fall (climber is around +10kg than me). Inevitably he took a sharp fall
>and his foot landed on an uneven part of the wall. He ended up hanging
>on the rope 2m from ground? ground was also uneven, basically two boulders
>of either side of the fall path.
>
>In hindsight, we should have tried it on top rope first. It was the last
>climb of the day (red flag!!), incident occurred at 4pm, and we probably
>should not have pushed new terrain so late in the day. Also, maybe we should
>have encouraged down-climbing sooner rather than encouraging to make the
>clip until failure. We probably should have also practiced falling outdoors
>(we had over 10 hours dedicated solely to falls practice indoors).
>
>He ended up dislocating his ankle and breaking the bottom of his fibula.
>He's now recovering, in good spirits with a plate and a few screws in his
>leg. There were five of us at the time of the incident, two were able to
>stay with with the climber and the other two got the paramedics. All of
>us are so so grateful for the team involved in the rescue and hope some
>people got the cake we dropped off at Horsham ambulance center! He did
>have ambulance cover, thank goodness.
>
>Seconded, check your ambulance cover!
>
>

Thanks for the update. Good to hear how he's going and that he's not massively out of pocket.

There was cake ?? We'll have to have words with AV to share the spoils.

gnarly_rider

25-Sep-2018
4:05:50 PM

>>All of us are so so grateful for the team involved in the rescue and hope some people got the cake we dropped off at Horsham ambulance center! He did have ambulance cover, thank goodness.

Hopefully you also dropped some cake off to the VICSES teams involved? ;D

One Day Hero

26-Sep-2018
4:10:53 AM

Yeah, so all of that sounds like a bumbly fiesta. 10hrs of indoor fall practice? As in 10 straight hours of just climbing up and jumping off? Holy shit, that'd just about use up a rope! How was your back?

Wendy

26-Sep-2018
1:58:40 PM

On 23-Sep-2018 rodw wrote:
>On 23-Sep-2018 Wendy wrote:
>
>
>>This is almost always the situation at second bolts. Frequently at 3rd
>>bolts. There are reasons I find sport climbing more scary than trad!
>
>It shouldn't be, easy to fix, when bolting just have first few bolts close
>together to ensure clipper doesn't deck and space out the higher you go..seems
>to be more an issue on easy routes with the idea its easy no one will fall..shit
>happens IMHO..bolt accordingly.

In theory, great. I'm all for bolting safely if you are going to bolt at all, but in practice? I am about 1.5m tall. If a bolt is at my feet when I clip a bolt at my face, I have about 2.5m about rope out. Add a tad of slack and rope stretch and I'm still going to go nearly 6m if I fall clipping. It's just not practicable to put enough bolts in to make it all super safe, but because it's a sport route, people assume it is. I have a variation of the old school leader mantra. The clipper shall not fall off.

Wendy

26-Sep-2018
2:05:17 PM

On 23-Sep-2018 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 23-Sep-2018 Wendy wrote:

>>
>>This is almost always the situation at second bolts. Frequently at 3rd
>>bolts. There are reasons I find sport climbing more scary than trad!
>>
>Yes, but you also say that you don’t like small gear (particularly RP’s),
>fiddly gear placements, no-gear placements (exposed slabs), crap rock,
>long run-outs, vegetated climbs, wildlife (snakes etc) on climbs, shoulder
>wrenching bouldery moves ...
>;-)
>It would seem that your enjoyable climbing list is shrinking*.
>Heh, heh, heh.
>
>(* Mine has too. It’s probably age related! These days it’s simply enjoyable
>just to touch rock!!)
>

I have never liked slabs or run outs, it's not an age related thing! And I'll be happy to not do yet another shoulder, but I don't know where the rest of your list came from! Actually, I thought I was notorious for the amount of crappy vegetated rock I climbed ...

renq

26-Sep-2018
8:53:55 PM

>Hopefully you also dropped some cake off to the VICSES teams involved?
> ;D

We'd need to chopper to help deliver it to the sheer amount of individuals involved.

Hoping it was an SES member that got to claim our booty.

>10hrs of indoor fall practice? As in 10 straight hours of just climbing up and jumping off? Holy shit, that'd just about use up a rope! How was your back?

A couple of ropes, both ends. Ropes seem fine haha you're not thinking that this was a single gigantic session right? backs are also fine, but didn't seem to strengthen our ankles...


gordoste

26-Sep-2018
9:33:22 PM

Mate I think you are being too hard on yourself. Anyone falling at a height where a groundfall is a possibility is going to get a tight belay, and no amount of practice will totally eliminate ankle damage. This is just a risk you accept by going lead climbing.

Rawpowa!

27-Sep-2018
12:29:21 AM

Yeah I'm with gordeste, shit happens and everyone seems relatively OK. I'm sure you'll learn from it, just keep climbing.

27-Sep-2018
4:31:00 AM

Where are the posts on using double ropes when you need them?
If you are climbing on doubles the armful of slack is not on the rope that will take the fall.
Doubles are probably more useful on short bolted routes than long meandering climbs. If it is short route then even a 50m rope doubled will serve the purpose as long as you pay attention and don't get your ropes crossed.

patto

27-Sep-2018
11:51:14 PM

On 27-Sep-2018 BA wrote:
>Where are the posts on using double ropes when you need them?

Don't confuse the sport climbers.

Stugang

28-Sep-2018
1:01:09 AM

All in all agree with gordoste and rawmeat that you did ok but with hindsight if your partner pulled up 2m from the ground on a tight rope there was probably room enough in the system to make his/her fall a bit softer that *may* have avoided injury. None of us can say with certainty what would have happened otherwise or how we would have acted but worth reflecting on and learning from.

One Day Hero

2-Oct-2018
12:27:22 AM

On 27-Sep-2018 Rawpowa! wrote:
>Yeah I'm with gordeste, shit happens and everyone seems relatively OK.
>I'm sure you'll learn from it, just keep climbing.

Unlike Stu, I don't agree with this. If you take sizable falls on vertical or slightly less than vertical rock with big chickenheads sticking out, it's quite likely that you'll wreck yourself. I mean, who would voluntarily take a big whipper on some low angle grade 15 at Araps? It's nuts.

The reality is that many routes (including sport routes) have large sections of "leader probably shouldn't fall" ground on them. Easier routes are more likely to have don't fall sections, and much more likely to have those sections at a grade not too far below the grade of the route. Can anyone imagine taking deliberate 5 or 6m falls on something like the first pitch of The Bard or Arachnus? You couldn't pay me to do that, it's so frigging dangerous with all the shit you're going to bounce off. If you're climbing grade 15s or whatever, you really can't fall off most of the time, unless the gear or bolt is above your knees.

Fark, the first year and half I was climbing I'd just randomly come flying off the rock with no idea why. Another good trick was going from 80% fresh to "too pumped to see" in about 5 seconds flat. It's not to do with how strong you are, there's some quantity of climbing you do on actual rock and those flameouts and sudden explosions don't seem to happen anymore. I dunno if all these other old farts are just glossing over that phase, but I nearly hit the deck half a dozen times in my bumbly years. You just have to get through the wild first bit of your climbing with ankles intact and things get a lot more under control.

Stugang

2-Oct-2018
7:41:29 AM

OK I was assuming it was a tight rope belay accident rather than a bounce on ledge accident. Seriously how is it possible to pump out freak and fall at a waist high clip on any of the routes you mentioned? So with no knowledge of the route I assumed it was at least slightly overhanging.

If it was a low angle ledge bouncer then I am truly lost for words.

One Day Hero

2-Oct-2018
4:43:23 PM

You just don't seem to understand how deep the bumbly rabbit hole goes. The kind of people who want gr15 sport routes in Victoria are looking for the cred of being a "lead climber" without any risk, responsibility or consequence. And that is actually a very difficult thing to engineer on ledgy bubbly chickenhead rock.

I don't even get that mad at the noob idiots who want to "be on lead" but don't want risks. I save my crankiness for the experienced climbers who try to cater to the demand by spraying bolts at shitty easy walls which still aren't "safe".

widewetandslippery

2-Oct-2018
5:51:48 PM

I'm an experienced climber who sprays bolts into easier shitty routes, not to cater for bumblies but because I climb like one.

As for your above comment about ground falls, I,'ve had a fair share, normally walk away, just go to different hospitals so they don't ask questions is key.


gordoste

2-Oct-2018
6:59:34 PM

What you're saying is true ODH - ledges do make easier climbs more dangerous (D minor is the one that springs to my mind). But the route in question doesn't have big ledges (I've climbed the one next to it). So it isn't relevant here.
You're correct that jugs make ankle injuries more likely, which is probably something a lot of beginners aren't aware of, but sooner or later anyone coming from the gym realises that staying off the ground is not the only thing you need to worry about.

One Day Hero

3-Oct-2018
2:49:16 AM

On 2-Oct-2018 gordoste wrote:

>sooner or later anyone
>coming from the gym realises that staying off the ground >is not the only
>thing you need to worry about.

Well yes, but having people come to that realization via a shattered foot seems sub-optimal.

One Day Hero

3-Oct-2018
2:53:46 AM

On 2-Oct-2018 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I'm an experienced climber who sprays bolts into easier shitty routes,
>not to cater for bumblies but because I climb like one.
>
It doesn't really bother me if you have your motivation straight. The developers who annoy me most are the ones going out to create safe easy routes for the masses by bolting choss or bulgy ledgy nonsense.


ajfclark

3-Oct-2018
4:46:46 PM

On 2-Oct-2018 Stugang wrote:
>OK I was assuming it was a tight rope belay accident rather than a bounce on ledge accident.
>
>Seriously how is it possible to pump out freak and fall at a waist high clip on any of the routes you mentioned? So with no knowledge of the route I assumed it was at least slightly overhanging.

The route is pretty well vertical. It starts from a ledge above and right of a left facing corner and heads up and left, so I assumed that the climber had swung into that corner, especially given where he was located, down left of the start of the route, on the lower level.

From the reply above, it does indeed sound like a tight belay though - unless when the belayer says "2m from the ground" they mean 2m from the lower level, in which case they were below the belay and the climber swung into that left facing corner.

As for why, imagine you haven't been climbing that long, maybe a year or so, and it's late in the day. You decide to climb one last route and just power out. For whatever reason, there's a conscious decision to take the fall over things like downclimbing etc.

Stugang

4-Oct-2018
12:45:44 AM

I hear you hero. Now that I am climbing more in gyms and Asian sport crags I realise what a bubble I had been climbing in. Most of the people I climbed with until moving to Singapore were competent. Even the dodgiest ones were competent.

Luckily I’ve hooked up with a slightly more competent crew, although there are a couple of them that I make sure I climb a route I can comfortably onsite when they belay me. Anyway the shit coming out of their mouths sometimes. For example a few weeks ago we did a 300m (actually had to retreat cos of rain but point still same) 6b on this amazing remote crag on an island in Malaysia. They were frothing that the bolts were maybe 10m apart on low angle good rock grade 15 with positive holds. I was dubbed “kamikaze Aussie” cos to shut them up I said I’d lead every pitch as opposed to swing leads. I was told that night that it was a disgrace that the bolts weren’t 2m apart and they with all their experience (eg I had to remind them of how to get safe and set up belay at a bolt anchor on a multipitch route) wanted to come back and retro the route we retreated off cos of rain.

That said if anyone is passing through Singapore and wants to climb something on Tioman please look me up. It is fkin amazing and the rock and routes are world class. Google it - the photos look good but it is better in the flesh. Logistics are a slight hassle (but now I know the boat operators etc so not too bad) to get there but once you are there it is unbelievably good.

There are 53 messages in this topic.