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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 7 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 127
Author
QUT and affiliates sued for $8m Kangaroo Point
Paul
6-Jun-2017
8:49:46 AM
On 6/06/2017 patto wrote:
>On 5/06/2017 rightarmbad wrote:
>>Being well over 6 foot and bigger than average, I always grab the belayers
>>side of the rope as they begin to lower me.
>>Many people get quite a shock at how much force is required to hold and
>>lower a heavier climber.
>>Especially if they are using Gri Gri's.
>>I have done this since being dropped several meters twice by very experienced
>>belayers that simply had never had to lower somebody much heavier than
>>themselves.
>
>It is sad that you cannot trust your belayers and feel you have to do
>this. Though you are certainly not the only one who does this. (I've
>done this with inexperienced belayers)
>
>Just shows that experience isn't always a good measure of ability.
>
>It really isn't that hard to start off locked off with high tension and
>grip and reduce until the climber lowers at a reasonable speed.
>
>(The Grigri doesn't help with this process but any 'experienced' belayer
>should know this.)

If you have concern about a belayer being able to hold and lower you, would you not be concerned about their ability to catch you when you fall as well?

Wendy
6-Jun-2017
9:41:45 AM
On 6/06/2017 Paul wrote:
>On 6/06/2017 patto wrote:
>>On 5/06/2017 rightarmbad wrote:
>>>Being well over 6 foot and bigger than average, I always grab the belayers
>>>side of the rope as they begin to lower me.
>>>Many people get quite a shock at how much force is required to hold
>and
>>>lower a heavier climber.
>>>Especially if they are using Gri Gri's.
>>>I have done this since being dropped several meters twice by very experienced
>>>belayers that simply had never had to lower somebody much heavier than
>>>themselves.
>>
>>It is sad that you cannot trust your belayers and feel you have to do
>>this. Though you are certainly not the only one who does this. (I've
>>done this with inexperienced belayers)
>>
>>Just shows that experience isn't always a good measure of ability.
>>
>>It really isn't that hard to start off locked off with high tension and
>>grip and reduce until the climber lowers at a reasonable speed.
>>
>>(The Grigri doesn't help with this process but any 'experienced' belayer
>>should know this.)
>
>If you have concern about a belayer being able to hold and lower you,
>would you not be concerned about their ability to catch you when you fall
>as well?
>
>
Agreed, I'd be way more concerned about their ability to catch! Surely a more useful solution to the problem would be some controlled practice? The only other time I have heard anyone advocate holding the belay side of the rope when lowering was Bomberpro. Nuff said. Has anyone actually tried lowering themselves hand over hand like this anyway? It would demonstrate why we use belay devices. chances of holding yourself without any added friction - FA. But if they anyone would like to demonstrate otherwise on the rap off the back of the pharos ...
Dave_S
6-Jun-2017
9:48:42 AM
On 6/06/2017 Wendy wrote:
> Has anyone actually tried lowering themselves hand over hand like this anyway?

Yes, and it's actually not all that difficult. The anchors are acting as a 2:1 pulley with a lot of friction, so you actually only end up having to hold less than half your bodyweight in your hands.
rightarmbad
6-Jun-2017
12:12:36 PM
Yes, I have ascended this way as well as long as your feet can get contact with the wall.

Catching is easier than lowering as it is a lock-off in the devices highest friction geometry.
Lowering has less mechanical advantage and modulating a high force is harder than a low one.

Same as abseiling, there is no way I can go down by sliding my hand on the brake rope, it just burns, I go hand over hand.
Locking off is easy though.
kieranl
6-Jun-2017
1:06:29 PM
I am just staggered that people would trust someone to belay them but not to lower them. If someone is losing control when they're lowering you then it is seriously wrong. I'm fairly light (about 65kg) and have belayed and lowered some quite substantial people but I've never lost control. I can be pulled off my feet (if I haven't tied myself down ) but I lock the rope off and hold it. If you don't trust your belayer why are you having them hold your rope?

Wendy
6-Jun-2017
4:55:45 PM
On 6/06/2017 Dave_S wrote:
>On 6/06/2017 Wendy wrote:
>> Has anyone actually tried lowering themselves hand over hand like this
>anyway?
>
>Yes, and it's actually not all that difficult. The anchors are acting
>as a 2:1 pulley with a lot of friction, so you actually only end up having
>to hold less than half your bodyweight in your hands.

Maybe we have different definitions of difficult. I don't want to have to hold 25 or so kg with my bare hands gripping a 10mm rope and definitely not to trust my life to it. If you are lowering off a route your just seconded or something steepish in a straight line, there's not any friction to help you either. I don't even trust myself to haul up a pack once they get a bit heavy and chuck them on my cinch.
One Day Hero
7-Jun-2017
12:43:54 PM
On 6/06/2017 kieranl wrote:
>I am just staggered that people would trust someone to belay them but not
>to lower them.

I heard the dangerous shanker alarm go off by about the third post on this thread. Good to see that you and Wendy are finally on board. These people are teaching beginners how to climb!

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There are 127 messages in this topic.

 

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