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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 57
Author
Rescue - Bunny Bucket

nmonteith
26/05/2014
1:48:35 PM
It should be noted there was a full scale heli rescue on the same route less than 12 months ago. And then of course the very sad death of Nick Kaz was also on the same section of cliff a few years prior to that.


sbm
Online Now
26/05/2014
1:51:06 PM
> Ensure you get there before sun up as we got to the second last pitch with only a bit over an hour left of light and we where at the walk in by sunrise.

Sunrise at 7am, sunset at 5, that means it took them around 9 hours to walk in (not short) do two raps, climb 4 pitches of grade 17/18 and do two bushwalk pitches. All rings and bolted belays.

A lot of novices climb slooooow. They have no sense of how much time is slipping away when they take 15 minutes between calling safe and getting the second on belay. They're not yet obsessed with climbing enough to see five pitches a day as a disappointing minimum! See: any popular easy route at Araps.
daave
26/05/2014
1:56:34 PM
On 26/05/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>I've done the mega walk-out of shame many years ago along the entire
>base of the cliff and it was pretty epic.

Yeah I know the Mega walk-out of shame too. A mate and I got ropes stuck above us on the 2nd Mirrorball rap. We spent a good hour and a bit trying to get them free, but with blisters from too much pulling (heh heh heh) of ropes we had to bash it out. We parallelled the cliffline back towards the escape gully. We didn't know where or if there was a track, and probably didn't stick high enough, so had to bush bash some pretty dense bush with some pretty big boulders to negotiate. Took a couple of hours, got back to the car, walked back in to mirrorball, rapped down, free'd ropes, climbed out of mirrorball and went to Logan Brae, heckled some people and then got drunk.

Climbing 1,
Dave and reas, 0
martym
26/05/2014
2:05:19 PM
On 26/05/2014 sbm wrote:
>> Ensure you get there before sun up as we got to the second last pitch
>with only a bit over an hour left of light and we where at the walk in
>by sunrise.
>
>Sunrise at 7am, sunset at 5, that means it took them around 9 hours to
>walk in (not short) do two raps, climb 4 pitches of grade 17/18 and do
>two bushwalk pitches. All rings and bolted belays.
>
>A lot of novices climb slooooow. They have no sense of how much time is
>slipping away when they take 15 minutes between calling safe and getting
>the second on belay. They're not yet obsessed with climbing enough to see
>five pitches a day as a disappointing minimum! See: any popular easy route
>at Araps.

I'm amazed they didn't take head torches.
I think a lot of climbers see BBB as the only long climb of it's kind and underestimate it's epic nature. It's the classic problem of reading a number & a length (ie. max 18 / 250m) and not reading the description; other research and advice... like this?

Is there a page on Chockstone with "not-obvious but minimum requirements for your day climbing?"
eg. First aid kit; headtorch; whistle etc.

I guess now that smartphones have a torch function, people get over confident. "Siri, on belay!"

sbm
Online Now
26/05/2014
2:07:03 PM
On 26/05/2014 Superstu wrote:
>Was there an accident on BBB or was this just benightment?
>If its the latter, then surely if you're willing to head out to do BBB
>in Da Grose then you can just suck it up for a benightment if you screw
>up. Unnecessary rescues endangers the lives of the rescuers and gives the
>authorities good reasons to control or limit the climbing game.

A surprising amount of people do BBB as their first multipitch! And I reckon a good amount will never rap into the Grose to do anything else - even mirror ball is intimidating (19 on carrots! And it's, gasp, run out!), they cant place trad gear to do Tom Thumb, and they don't read the guidebook closely enough to know about Bellbird Wall.

I completely disagree with this, but I do know these people. And if someone broke an ankle or dropped their glasses they would definitely sit tight and call a helicopter.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
26/05/2014
2:38:50 PM
On 26/05/2014 martym wrote:
>Is there a page on Chockstone with "not-obvious but minimum requirements
>for your day climbing?"
>eg. First aid kit; headtorch; whistle etc.
>
http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Mistakes.htm ?

~> Many other topics there too...
patto
26/05/2014
2:43:26 PM
Did the people who go benighted call their rescue?? It may have been their friends who did so.

A basic safety procedure when going out bush is simply letting someone know when/where you are going and when you are likely to come back. When you're friends aren't back from a climb at 12 midnight many people are inclined to call rescue.

People doing remote climbs need to let their mates know that they are prepared for a bivvy.

BlankSlab
26/05/2014
3:02:07 PM
On 26/05/2014 sbm wrote:

>
>A surprising amount of people do BBB as their first multipitch! And I
>reckon a good amount will never rap into the Grose to do anything else
>- even mirror ball is intimidating (19 on carrots! And it's, gasp, run
>out!), they cant place trad gear to do Tom Thumb, and they don't read the
>guidebook closely enough to know about Bellbird Wall.
>

Its a worrying trend with people heading onto things like this as there first multi. Like was said before if your rope work isn't nailed you can loose 2 hours of daylight on something like this.

Somehow i think it wont be the last trip out there to rescue someone. A cold uncomfortable night on a ledge seems to be becoming less and less common with people.

Miguel75
26/05/2014
3:10:55 PM
On 26/05/2014 Superstu wrote:
>...SNIP... Unnecessary rescues endangers the lives of the rescuers and gives the
>authorities good reasons to control or limit the climbing game.

While I agree about the authorities not needing more reasons to control/limit climbing, (and speaking for myself) I reckon most emergency responders get into the game with the express desire to participate in activities related to their chosen profession. People making silly decisions, resulting in adverse consequences make life interesting but I'm not sure I've ever returned from a job bitching about having something to do...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
26/05/2014
3:14:36 PM
On 26/05/2014 Miguel75 wrote:
>People making silly decisions, resulting
>in adverse consequences make life interesting but I'm not sure I've ever
>returned from a job bitching about having something to do...

That is just because you're a nice bloke... However if your name is-
;-)
martym
26/05/2014
3:15:01 PM
On 26/05/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 26/05/2014 martym wrote:
>>Is there a page on Chockstone with "not-obvious but minimum requirements
>>for your day climbing?"
>>eg. First aid kit; headtorch; whistle etc.
>>
>http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Mistakes.htm ?
>

Good, but not quite the same... though of course I doubt the climbers in question would read either.
From reading their facebook comment, they didn't bring enough food and muscles "seized up"... if the horse doesn't know it needs to drink, why lead it to water??
crackalackin!
26/05/2014
3:15:19 PM
On 26/05/2014 sbm wrote:
>On 26/05/2014 Superstu wrote:
>>Was there an accident on BBB or was this just benightment?
>>If its the latter, then surely if you're willing to head out to do BBB
>>in Da Grose then you can just suck it up for a benightment if you screw
>>up. Unnecessary rescues endangers the lives of the rescuers and gives
>the
>>authorities good reasons to control or limit the climbing game.
>
>A surprising amount of people do BBB as their first multipitch! And I
>reckon a good amount will never rap into the Grose to do anything else
>- even mirror ball is intimidating (19 on carrots! And it's, gasp, run
>out!), they cant place trad gear to do Tom Thumb, and they don't read the
>guidebook closely enough to know about Bellbird Wall.
>
>I completely disagree with this, but I do know these people. And if someone
>broke an ankle or dropped their glasses they would definitely sit tight
>and call a helicopter.

I think any "first" multipitch can be challenging, even tom thumb, because there are many surprise logistical factors that come into play that are absent in general cragging. Tom thumb was my first multi, the sun came out and blasted us and we ran out of water, resulting in a very hard day. We didn't call a chopper though.....
baz74
26/05/2014
3:53:00 PM
Bummer these guys bite off more than they could chew and they should have just endured a benightenment, but don't worry about the rescuers - they relish it. This would have been a chance for them to get out and do a rescue and knowing the people being rescued where unharmed. Good training for the Police Rescue guys and familiarisation with the area for future jobs and now they will know how to deal with all those razor shape rope cutting ironstone plates up there.

jahmz
26/05/2014
4:45:33 PM
I have to agree with Superstu. In most cases, I am sympathetic with the victim (we can rarely fully understand the situation), but I feel that in this case the individuals took advantage of the emergency services, putting them at risk and making a bad name for the sport.

I have experienced epics in the Grose, long walks with sprained ankles and dark, rainy, windy retreats. I have been dehydrated and cramped and climbed clip to clip on BBB on my first big multipitch. but personally I would never call the emergency services unless I was in danger. I cant see how being benighted is anything more than horribly uncomfortable.

I do understand that it is harder to make judgements in a stressful situation but this is something that we have to understand when we engage in the sport. it IS inherently dangerous, and people new to the sport need to fully understand the commitment they are undertaking. I apologize to the individuals involved for making sweeping judgements, however I believe it is a good case to represent what I feel is becoming more and more common as the sport gains popularity. I see so many people making simple mistakes, completely oblivious to the dangers, whether it is not knowing how to use their gear, assuming it is fool proof or failing to take enough food, water or head-torches on a big wall.

Climbing is still risky, I feel we need to develop a culture that understands risk above all. We tend to become complacent because we are used to the exposure, and when things go wrong it looks far worse in the media and to the wider public. Calling in the cavalry when you are in no danger just adds to this image. If controls ever get put on climbing it wont be because of the emergency services complaining about the danger they are in, it will be someone at a desk looking at the statistics. and seeing climbing as a growing danger that needs to be stopped.

Look after yourselves, be prepared, and look after our emergency services too.

Rant over, let the backlash commence.

Macciza
26/05/2014
5:18:42 PM
Yeah all a bit sad and silly really . . .

My 2 cents - Got caught at that rather huge ledge late in the day getting hammered by rain that didn't look like it was going to stop suddenly and get all sunny . . .
Variously rapped or lowered partner and down climbed with a minor hiccup or two hoping to get back to the shelter where you rap in try to find track to walk out . . .
Light got the better of us and instead we improvised fuel, food and shelter and stayed the night . . .
Next morning the client still wanted to do the climb and reckoned it was one his best times out !
Damo666
26/05/2014
6:47:53 PM
On 26/05/2014 jahmz wrote:
>
>in this case the individuals took advantage of the emergency services,
>putting them at risk and making a bad name for the sport.
>
>... personally
>I would never call the emergency services unless I was in danger. I cant
>see how being benighted is anything more than horribly uncomfortable.
>
>... I believe
>it is a good case to represent what I feel is becoming more and more common
>as the sport gains popularity. ... when things go wrong it looks far worse in the media and
>to the wider public. Calling in the cavalry when you are in no danger just
>adds to this image.


+1

Well said.
kieranl
26/05/2014
8:06:01 PM
"Muscles seized up" suggests that they weren't fit enough, but that's all pretty obvious.
One of the things about these risky rescue jobs in the dark is that it is perfectly open to emergency services to decide that the situation does not justify the risk to rescuers and wait until morning. I don't know what was reported to S&R, but I imagine that there was enough uncertainty about their condition and situation that made Dal and his crew decide to go in the dark.
it's often a difficult call to say "They're fine to stay up there all night" because these parties will be exhausted, have sometimes flared up pre-existing injuries or had falls knocking them about. There's no single thing that seems to be seriously bad but they're often not in a good place overall.
One Day Hero
27/05/2014
6:25:12 PM
Do you want gym fuchwits calling for rescues because their "muscles seized up"? Because if you ringbolt long easy routes and take every possible measure to make things safe and convenient, fuchwits like these two will require rescue from your route.

Of course, there is something to be said for funnelling all the incompetent softc--ks onto one climb (for which the emergency rescue folk have the haul dialled).
Colg
27/05/2014
7:21:12 PM
Sorry baz and Miguel Ive work in a rescue organisation for almost 30 years almost as long as I've been climbing. And nothing pisses me off more than some fool placing mine and the life's of my work mates at risk for no apparent reason. If your going to climb learn how to help yourself before asking others.

phillipivan
27/05/2014
8:26:22 PM
There is no climb I've ever done where I have taken all the essential gear and procedures listed in this thread. Nor do I plan to in the future.

So I feel rather ambivalent about hanging shit on the rescueee's. I can only imagine when I finally manage to properly f--- things up one day, all y'all will have at me too.

Fair enough.

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 57
There are 57 messages in this topic.

 

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