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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 96
Author
Trapped in Squeeze Test for hours [The Age]

Eduardo Slabofvic
22/04/2014
10:28:57 PM
On 22/04/2014 Miguel75 wrote:
>
>Dr Evil and I not only look alike, we think alike;
>

So, Stugang must be your Mini-me
patto
22/04/2014
10:49:01 PM
On 22/04/2014 Cliff wrote:
>On 22/04/2014 rodw wrote:
>>Because ppl wont call until its to late, I'm pretty sure rescue ppl would
>>rather bring out a live body than a corpse....srsly you want to bring
>up
>>this crap again.
>
>Sure, can't argue with that. Everyone wants a good outcome :) I just think
>the cost of avoidable rescues like this puts pressure on services and funding
>that might be better used helping people who haven't intentionally put
>themselves in harms way. I understand that they've decided to fly him to
>Melbourne for treatment. Maybe the total bill will be $10-20,000. Hopefully
>diverting police and ambos away from other duties hasn't adversely affected
>someone else. Like you, I'm glad he's OK. But I think he should foot the
>bill.
>
>Fill the boulder with concrete!

What are these other duties for police and ambos that are so much more important?

Helping people P-platers who wrapped themselves around a tree?
Helping the smoker who has had a stroke?
Helping the obese guy who has had a heart attack?

Should these people get help? Yep. Are they more important? Nup. Are they less avoidable, nup.

ajfclark
22/04/2014
11:03:52 PM
On 22/04/2014 Cliff wrote:
>Nah, I didn't want you to say anything like that... I'll say it... I think the guy should pay for his rescue costs. We pay for ambulance services, why shouldn't people repay their rescue costs?

He's already repaid me, as have the other people I've been called out to help. My fee is zero.

I volunteer my time and I'm happy to help out.
SL212
22/04/2014
11:50:23 PM
Someone should cement your keyboard.
martym
22/04/2014
11:51:53 PM
On 22/04/2014 Cliff wrote:
>I realise its futile to have a reasonable discussion on Chocky. I still
>think the best solution really is to cement the boulder.

And we're back to nukin' Araps
martym
23/04/2014
12:02:46 AM
On 22/04/2014 Cliff wrote:
>On 22/04/2014 ajfclark wrote: He's already repaid me, as have the other
>people I've been called out to help. My fee is zero. I volunteer my time
>and I'm happy to help out.
>
>Oh Jeezuz... There was no cost for your services AJ, and you've just pointed
>out why that is.
>
>What part of rescue costs don't you understand? The ambos and police expect
>to get paid, the equipment is expensive, the airfare is not free, the hospital
>staff will expect to get paid, etc.

They do get paid... They work in emergency/rescue services... what part of "rescue" don't you understand?
It's not like they're tradeys being forced to work at midnight filling a crack with concrete... This is their job - this is what they are paid to do...

What you're arguing for is a user pays system, rather than a communal insurance system - where 999 people who pay the tax don't use the service... That's fine, you've got your liberal government hacking Medicare to pieces- you'll get your way soon enough.

I think most of the guys involved probably found this a very interesting rescue - you can be sure they were all discussing it at the dinner table the next day.

Miguel75
23/04/2014
1:10:37 AM
You can't legislate or regulate stupidity! Unless you remove all freedoms and choices people will continue to do really dumb things every day. Sometimes by choice, sometimes through ignorance. Sometimes they live and sometimes they die. Sometimes the situation is really serious and sometimes it's freaking ridiculous and you have to try really hard not to laugh until you're away from any cameras. Emergency service workers put themselves on the line happily, (for want of a better word) to assist those who find themselves in 'emergency' situations. All the ones I know walk away from jobs such as this with greater operational knowledge and way more importantly, something to talk about around the table for the next few years.

I personally reckon people should be charged for car accidents as most every one I've been to has been avoidable. They're either caused by stupid decisions, inattention or just plain old crap driving skills. I reckon fender benders chew up way more Police, Ambo and Fire service time then anything else, except maybe heroin overdoses.... Is the answer to ban cars? Remove roads? Make heroin illegal?

Unless the young bloke has insurance he will likely have a hefty (road and air) ambulance fee and as Andrew mentioned, his rescuers will likely walk away happy to have contributed in their own way to a positive outcome. Some of us here in Chockistan may learn something and decide to forego doing the squeeze test unless fully committed and prepared. That is to say, nude, greased up with pig fat, with many friends, (phones in hand), ready to call the emergency services and/or update facebook with pics and running commentary style statu updates...

I'll go back to my main point quoting NoFX's 'the Decline' - Where are all the stupid people from? And how'd they get to be so dumb?



EDIT
On 22/04/2014 Cliff wrote:
>On 22/04/2014 ajfclark wrote: He's already repaid me, as have the other
>people I've been called out to help. My fee is zero. I volunteer my time
>and I'm happy to help out.
>
>Oh Jeezuz... There was no cost for your services AJ, and you've just pointed
>out why that is.

There is always a cost to volunteer emergency service workers; time away from loved ones (which can be a blessing sometimes) the opportunity cost of what they could be doing with their time if they weren't standing around some boulder in the cold; exposure to the elements and more importantly, exposure to tragic situations that will likely leave a psychological scar.

JamesMc
23/04/2014
7:31:15 AM
Cliff, people knowingly put themselves in harm's way all the time. They smoke cigarettes, travel on roads, don't exercise enough etc. Would you exclude them all from the public health care system? If so, we could shut it down.

Given that many people had been through this squeeze, perhaps one could say this guy wasn't doing something foolhardy, he just didn't realise how fat he was.

Having said that, a generous donation might be appropriate

ajfclark
23/04/2014
7:47:47 AM
I was only trying to highlight that quite a few of the people there were volunteers so personnel costs might've appeared higher than they were.

Rather than just bash through all this pay for rescue stuff again, can someone dig up the thread on the dude that got rescued 3 or 4 times in a couple of years? [edit: That's this one. I thought this debate was in there but it seems not. Maybe it came up in a different rescue thread? How about the bungonia cave rescue recently? Nope... no mention of concreting it up either. ]

On another note, apparently the SMH page for the story had some awesome ads:
a link to the trailer for 127 hours and diet tips to help get a flat stomach.

IronCheff
23/04/2014
9:07:06 AM
On 22/04/2014 kieranl wrote:
>I can't say a lot about it. His hips were very stuck and the problem was
>to lift those without injuring him. If he had popped out on our first try
>it would have been easy but he didn't so it turned into a long night.

Would extraction be easier if there was an air bag underneath the trapped person able to lift them up and release the hips? It would probably have to be custom made to be the right size and shape. Slide it in under the person and inflate, if thatís not possible it could live in the bottom of the crack deflated ready for use.
Wendy
23/04/2014
9:31:42 AM
I hate to challenge this stupid climbers rescue idea is taking money away from poor quadreplegics, but 75% of the health care costs in this country are from chronic illness, most of which are lifestyle related. They are increasing at rapid rates, showing up in younger and younger people and the lifestyle conditions contributing to them are not going down. If you really want to complain about the health budget, start looking at increasing taxes and regulation on alcohol, cigarettes, fast food, processed foods, fat and sugar, and subsidising fresh fruit and vegetables and exercise programs. Whilse you are at it, reducing maximum working hours, adapting shift work positions and subsidising counselling to reduce stress loads which are also corelated with high blood pressure, strokes, substance misuse, raised blood sugar and cholesterol.

I don't thing the smack users are really a major contributor to budget blowouts. Maybe slightly more than people getting stuck in the squeeze boulder though. If you look at the cost of drug use to the community, and indeed as a cause of death, you'll find illegal drugs are way down there and alcohol is way up there.

Cementing up the boulder is a stupid idea. Along the lines of Mike's comments, it's impossible to protect everyone against everywhere they might hurt themselves. Like most accidents, it's a matter of judgement. Learning and using good judgement is a rather critical skill in not hurting one's self in most endeavors.
kieranl
23/04/2014
9:37:50 AM
On 23/04/2014 IronCheff wrote:
>
>Would extraction be easier if there was an air bag underneath the trapped
>person able to lift them up and release the hips? It would probably have
>to be custom made to be the right size and shape. Slide it in under the
>person and inflate,
It was one of the ideas seriously considered.

Pat
23/04/2014
11:21:35 AM
Cliff, perhaps he had ambulance insurance, like a lot of us, and as such has paid for his rescue or will if he gets a a bill.
Will_P
23/04/2014
11:31:53 AM
I'm interested in why it took (alledgedly) 10 hours for the idea of lubing the guy up with cooking oil to turn into action? This certainly isn't meant as a criticism of the professionals and volunteers involved, I'm sure more appropriate options were considered and/or tried first - what were they?

Like most here, I've done the Squeeze Test a couple of times, and I've thought about how terrifying it would be to get truly stuck. I also thought I'd get someone to pour a truckload of oil onto me if that happened.

Regardless of my brilliant foresight (or just a subconcious desire to be covered in oil), very glad to hear he was extracted without serious injury, nice work by those involved in not destroying the boulder too.

Oh, and the always-reliable Herald-Sun todays says the Squeeze Test is done 'hundreds of time each week'. Wow. Who's the local doing laps in this thing daily?
Dave J
23/04/2014
12:02:22 PM
On 22/04/2014 simey wrote:
>It shits me that Louise would say this. That is like saying that we should
>ban climbing at Arapiles because people have had accidents there. I can't
>believe someone who is actively involved in adventure activities recommends
>this as a course of action given the many thousands of people have done
>The Squeeze Test with no drama.
>
I find it hard to believe anyone is seriously talking about destroying the boulder to minimise risk to park users. Blaming inanimate objects for causing harm to people is ridiculous. But then a few years ago at the Wimmera river, some numpty managed to install a rope swing on an old river red gum and then somehow cut their own hand off trying to use it. The 200 year old tree was singled out as the root cause of the problem and promptly cut down to mitigate the risk.

I think a basic competency test at the turn off to the mount would be a much better way of solving this issue (and would probably make life at the mount a lot more pleasant over the easter weekend). Any thoughts on what would make for a good competency test? Maybe if everyone had to stop off and wriggle up Brain Death before they were allowed to go past Dec Crag. I think that would pretty much guarantee no more Squeeze boulder incidents.
martym
23/04/2014
12:19:24 PM
On 23/04/2014 Dave J wrote:
>On 22/04/2014 simey wrote:
>>It shits me that Louise would say this. That is like saying that we should
>>ban climbing at Arapiles because people have had accidents there. I can't
>>believe someone who is actively involved in adventure activities recommends
>>this as a course of action given the many thousands of people have done
>>The Squeeze Test with no drama.
>>
>I find it hard to believe anyone is seriously talking about destroying
>the boulder to minimise risk to park users. Blaming inanimate objects for
>causing harm to people is ridiculous. But then a few years ago at the
>Wimmera river, some numpty managed to install a rope swing on an old river
>red gum and then somehow cut their own hand off trying to use it. The 200
>year old tree was singled out as the root cause of the problem and promptly
>cut down to mitigate the risk.
>
>I think a basic competency test at the turn off to the mount would be
>a much better way of solving this issue (and would probably make life at
>the mount a lot more pleasant over the easter weekend). Any thoughts on
>what would make for a good competency test? Maybe if everyone had to stop
>off and wriggle up Brain Death before they were allowed to go past Dec
>Crag. I think that would pretty much guarantee no more Squeeze boulder
>incidents.

And here we have the age old problem - you need a licence to drive, but anyone can sire children.
Reluctant
23/04/2014
12:25:21 PM
Can we all stop saying "Stupid climber falls".
No rope or harness or fall. Not climbing.

It's a boulder. Bouldering. Boulderer.
"Stupid boulderer gets stuck". Now it looks and sounds appropriate.

As for rescue costs etc. come on. This is the adult version of getting your finger stuck in the bath drain. It would be a stupidity tax. Everyone who posts on chockstone would be impoverished.

Miguel75
23/04/2014
1:16:30 PM
On 23/04/2014 Reluctant wrote:
...SNIP...
>As for rescue costs etc. come on. This is the adult version of getting
>your finger stuck in the bath drain. It would be a stupidity tax. Everyone
>who posts on chockstone would be impoverished.

I haven't been to many adults with fingers stuck in drains though at times there does seem to be a (too) common occurrence of adults (usually males) with rings stuck around a different appendage...

Eduardo Slabofvic
23/04/2014
1:25:20 PM
On 23/04/2014 Reluctant wrote:
>"Stupid boulderer gets stuck". Now it looks and sounds appropriate.
>

Except you've made into a tautology

Duang Daunk
23/04/2014
8:45:02 PM
He got what he deserved, ie an extended cold spell between warmth sucking rocks for his inadequacy of assessing his abilities.

Should he pay for his rescure? (Fruedian slip intentional), No.

I agree with those who reckon cementing keyboards for equal stupid ideas is the go.

Regarding hyped media interest in such stupidity; we can thank Aaron Ralston for that.

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There are 96 messages in this topic.

 

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