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Ground Fall Last night Hardrock CBD

crackalackin!

3-Mar-2014
2:51:58 PM

On 2/03/2014 rightarmbad wrote:
>I just don't get why anybody would want to lead climb in a gym.
.
.
.
>Gyms are a place where you can practice micro skills in a concentrated short time.

A lot of newer climbers who are looking to get out and try some sport routes are apprehensive about taking a lead fall even in really safe conditions. Going to a gym and taking a bunch of them on climbs that you find hard is helpful.

Also, learning how to position yourself while clipping while there is a bolt just at your feet is good for learning too.

Are these not micro skills? I know I did this kind of thing when I was learning.

It's strange that everyone complains when "numtpy" beginners injure themselves or bite off more than they can chew out on real rock but then want to remove potential learning devices.

jdb

3-Mar-2014
3:34:35 PM

The thing the scares the living shite out of me at HardRock (city) is that so many people seem to be oblivious to the dangers of top roping underneath someone who is leading. First things first, if/when I am leading and I became aware of someone too close I tell them in no uncertains terms to back off; secondly I regularly (when I'm on the ground) point out to others the immmenent danger of the leader above. I know this is harsh, but the staff are very happy to 'man' the cash register but IMHO they do not patrol nearly enough. There won't be a viable gym (and hence no money to collect) if there are broken necks to unsuspecting clients. But if current practices persist, I suspect it will be a case of when and not if. I hope I'm wrong. Here ends the sermon.


ajfclark

3-Mar-2014
3:47:22 PM

At least they fixed the original placement of the bolts they had when the place opened. What is now the second bolt used to be about 50cm under the current first bolt. I could clip the first bolt before leaving the ground and the second from half a move up. Then you had to run it out to where the third bolt is now. It was nuts.

rightarmbad

3-Mar-2014
9:37:49 PM

Exactly cracker, learn the micro skills you mentioned.

But going to the gym to lead when you can already lead is just a wank.

dalai

4-Mar-2014
10:31:53 AM

On 2/03/2014 stugang wrote:
>Personally I think the whole hard/soft catch thing is overdone - usually
>there is so much slack, distraction and incompetence in the system that
>a soft catch is inevitable.

Unless the distraction / incompetence means they aren't in control of the rope at all...

Howsie

4-Mar-2014
2:33:44 PM

Although many of us may have started outdoors on trad, I can appreciate that there are many relatively new to climbing that want to practice their falls, clipping and nerve before getting outdoors. If this is a safer approach to help get them through their storm years, that's good by me. However, the mistakes being made in the gym are far too evident, especially with two beginners together having just got their lead pass.

gfdonc

4-Mar-2014
2:41:52 PM

On 3/03/2014 rightarmbad wrote:
>But going to the gym to lead when you can already lead is just a wank.

Really disagree.
1. Can climb steeper routes (what Neil said).
2. Can do additional routes than what have a top rope on them (more terrain).
3. Can practice some 'headspace' as well as just climb the moves.

As mentioned, gravity and several related rules still apply indoors as well as out.


Duang Daunk

4-Mar-2014
4:30:47 PM

On 4/03/2014 dalai wrote:
>On 2/03/2014 stugang wrote:
>>Personally I think the whole hard/soft catch thing is overdone - usually
>>there is so much slack, distraction and incompetence in the system that
>>a soft catch is inevitable.
>
>Unless the distraction / incompetence means they aren't in control of
>the rope at all...
>
You are right.
Can't get much softer than that, unless you call it indoor bouldering?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Mar-2014
8:42:56 PM

Not a dig as such, but have you ever climbed in a gym DD?


Goshen

6-Mar-2014
10:19:41 AM

The Gyms have been promoting the 'Leading Ladder' series, which encourages leading, and is a load of fun really. So of course people are going want to lead these routes more. There's just more satisfaction in leading, for reasons already mentioned (esp on longer / overhanging routes).

Lead belaying is a skill however, for example: knowing what to do when your leader pulls heaps of slack, then drops it just before falling, well, is terrifying for a belayer (I'm not saying this is what happened).

Think of all the times you have seen this, and said quietly to yourself "don't fall now!!" Leading is inherently dangerous, and it is the climbers responsibility to minimise risk by communicating, not pitching off while clipping, etc.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Mar-2014
1:24:44 PM

On 6/03/2014 Goshen wrote:
>There's just more satisfaction in leading,

Maybe this is also why climbing outdoors on real rock is a popular ambition amongst the gym set?
... otherwise what they are doing is just another contrived pseudo-competition thing amongst those who would call themselves climbers??


ambyeok

7-Mar-2014
1:39:09 PM

On 6/03/2014 Goshen wrote:
>for example: knowing what to do when your leader pulls heaps of slack, then drops it just before falling

Knowing what to do? You watch them deck.

The belayer is not there to account for incompetence.


Pat

7-Mar-2014
6:22:21 PM

Um . . . actually they are in part when they belay me. If I do something incompetent that the belayer can compensate for the I expect them to account for that - if they can. Sure they cant prevent all stupidity, but I hope and expect my belayers to do whatever they can.


Duang Daunk

7-Mar-2014
6:29:23 PM

On 7/03/2014 Pat wrote:
>Um . . . actually they are in part when they belay me. If I do something
>incompetent that the belayer can compensate for the I expect them to account
>for that - if they can. Sure they cant prevent all stupidity, but I hope
>and expect my belayers to do whatever they can.

This is why I'd rather solo outdoors than rope climb outdoors with a gym belay numpty, no matter how well they think they can belay.

Jules Truong

27-Mar-2014
5:09:11 PM

On 28/02/2014 southcol wrote:
>If you do feel the need to sing Kumbaya, have some respect and get permission
>from the injured first.

Hey !
your comment about what the other climbers should do i.e., link arms in a circle , watch the climber and sing kumbaya " had me rolling around my living room in a burst of laughter ! Ive never laughed so hard in a long time dude! :) it wasn't the incident , just your poetic linguistic style of english expression which made me visualise your words so clearly ...


Duang Daunk

27-Mar-2014
8:10:18 PM

On 5/03/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Not a dig as such, but have you ever climbed in a gym DD?

Yes. And you might be pleased to know, I have also aid climbed.
I don't do either now as they both fall short of my preference for close spaced bolted sport climbing at Mt Keira.


ajfclark

27-Mar-2014
8:37:22 PM

Any update on this accident?


Climboholic

31-Mar-2014
4:45:29 PM

On 3/03/2014 rightarmbad wrote:
>Exactly cracker, learn the micro skills you mentioned.
>
>But going to the gym to lead when you can already lead is just a wank.

Agreed! Leading indoors is like using a blow-up doll. If you want to practice use your hand. Otherwise, go out and do the real thing!


ajfclark

31-Mar-2014
5:22:46 PM

I don't think I'd be very embarrassed if my parents saw me leading a route indoors...


ambyeok

2-Apr-2014
1:19:44 PM

Is using chalk while leading indoors a bit like lubing up before a good .... ?

There are 63 messages in this topic.