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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

Author
2013.06.02: Another El Cap death

ajfclark
4/06/2013
8:19:02 AM
Rock fall this time: http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/climber-dies-on-el-cap

freesolo
4/06/2013
4:33:38 PM
every climber's hidden fear; some random rock.

the size of the rock was described as 1'x2', so the comments below the article about wearing a helmet were not rational, although helmets should always be worn.
dalai
4/06/2013
6:08:47 PM
On 4/06/2013 freesolo wrote:
>every climber's hidden fear; some random rock.
>
>the size of the rock was described as 1'x2', so the comments below the
>article about wearing a helmet were not rational, although helmets should
>always be worn.

Condolences to the family of Felix.

Please don't make this a helmet debate (doesn't say if he was wearing one). As you say- it wouldn't have made a difference!

.

Miguel75
4/06/2013
6:49:45 PM
Freak nasty. There have been a few fatalities of late;

Yosemite - Muir wall
Yosemite - East Buttress
Leavenworth - http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/may/15/bc-woman-killed-in-rock-climbing-fall/
Tahquitz - http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2140799/Tahquitz-rescue-5-17-2013

Be safe out there. Thoughts and prayers for their partners, rescuers and families...
Drake
4/06/2013
7:56:24 PM
It seems like the leader dislodged the rock that killed his partner. I can only imagine that level of grief and remorse, even if it was a no-fault freak accident. I hope the leader can find some peace.
gfdonc
5/06/2013
9:07:28 AM
On 4/06/2013 Drake wrote:
>It seems like the leader dislodged the rock that killed his partner.

Sadly the question is not hypothetical, but I'm interested in hearing views: how would you extract yourself in that situation?
The leader was more than 1/2 a rope length up the pitch.

ajfclark
5/06/2013
9:21:38 AM
Assuming that the belayer was tied into the belay and the end of the rope, would this work?

clip in hard to a piece in front of me or build an anchor
put a prussic or grigri onto the rope at my tie in
pull through all the slack (slowly if they're using a grigri), maybe clipping off loops every X metres with a biner
down climb taking out slack on the way down

If you just wanted to get back to your partner, I guess once you got to the halfway point on the rope you could build an anchor and rope solo the rest?

White Trash
5/06/2013
9:36:50 AM
On 5/06/2013 gfdonc wrote:
>On 4/06/2013 Drake wrote:
>>It seems like the leader dislodged the rock that killed his partner.
>
>
>Sadly the question is not hypothetical, but I'm interested in hearing
>views: how would you extract yourself in that situation?
>The leader was more than 1/2 a rope length up the pitch.
>
i am sorry for those involved, and if this situation happened to me i guess i would downclimb, or tie off short each time and take falls piece to piece (possibly removing some them as I go), till back at belay, then give first aid to partner and self rescue if possible, call for help if not. this possibility would only work if the lead rope is still secured to belay, or belayer , and in that case also belayer still secured to belay.

ajfclark
5/06/2013
9:53:54 AM
I suppose, depending on how the pitch ran, you might be able to build an anchor, clip in, secure the lead line and rap back down to your partner. If you needed to retrieve the rope through that wouldn't be an option.
kieranl
5/06/2013
9:55:49 AM
On 4/06/2013 dalai wrote:
>On 4/06/2013 freesolo wrote:
>>every climber's hidden fear; some random rock.
>>
>>the size of the rock was described as 1'x2', so the comments below the
>>article about wearing a helmet were not rational, although helmets
>should
>>always be worn.

>
>Condolences to the family of Felix.
>
>Please don't make this a helmet debate (doesn't say if he was wearing
>one). As you say- it wouldn't have made a difference!
>
>.
Tragic stuff. We've all pulled and stood on things that look detached. Then one day one of them pulls...

re the helmet issue. It's not helpful to bring that up at this point, even to say that one wouldn't have made a difference. Without more detailed knowledge of the accident than is publicly available it's just speculation.
gfdonc
5/06/2013
11:11:53 AM
On 5/06/2013 White Trash wrote:
>tie off short each time and take falls piece
>to piece (possibly removing some them as I go),

Wow, you're brave. Take falls with no-one belaying you? Good luck with that.

I was thinking the best option would be to downclimb to the last piece, tie off to it (gulp) and try to build an anchor, then rap back down the rope, cleaning (if practical) as you went.

But then you're stuck half-way up a wall with no rope to get down with. And the anchor you just built is more than half a rope-length above you. Cute huh?

dhunchak
5/06/2013
11:50:30 AM
Build an anchor and tie in hard. Single strand rap to belayer to administer first aid. Discover you're on your own now. Ascend to high anchor, 2x double stranded raps (building a second anchor somewhere around halfway) down to the original belay. This should work in this scenario as the route is not traversing or overhung, otherwise the dislodged rock would not have hit the belayer. Continue horrible self rescue scenario as terrain allows.

White Trash
5/06/2013
12:42:52 PM
On 5/06/2013 gfdonc wrote:
>On 5/06/2013 White Trash wrote:
>>tie off short each time and take falls piece
>>to piece (possibly removing some them as I go),
>
>Wow, you're brave. Take falls with no-one belaying you? Good luck with
>that.
>
>I was thinking the best option would be to downclimb to the last piece,
>tie off to it (gulp) and try to build an anchor, then rap back down the
>rope, cleaning (if practical) as you went.
>
>But then you're stuck half-way up a wall with no rope to get down with.
> And the anchor you just built is more than half a rope-length above you.
> Cute huh?
>
sorry, you might have misread what i was trying to say. downclimbing is the prefer method always, and where this not possible then i would consider pulling up any remaining slack tying off short and dropping off whatever holds i was on to be caught by next piece. would be like a bungy jump depending on landing below yes? it is all theoreticla as i dont know the route or what it involves and it might be quite slabby. it would be a problem having to do this from last piece to the belay and prusik definitely needed.
actually thinking it more, would only need to do this till protection piece located below half rope out, then rap remaining distance (still relying on original belay anchor), so could pull the rope to retrieve when back at belay.
if was a long multipitch then saving gear for anchors and rope for lowering partner would be premium.
kieranl
5/06/2013
2:22:39 PM
Essentially follow dhunchak's proposed course of action, though as gfdonc suggests you might have to downclimb a bit. If the anchor's dodgy, reclip pieces as you descend until you can get something solid. Build a solid anchor below the halfway mark for use when you're recovering the rope.
The first priority is to check on your partner's condition and stabilise them if possible before heading off to raise the alarm.
There's lots of ifs, buts and maybes depending on the exact horrible circumstances.
If you're going to do long climbs in an area where there are likely to be few people consider: taking two ropes (twin, double, or just an extra light haul/rap line), epirb, prusiks, knife.
yosemite05
6/06/2013
3:49:05 PM
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-glbl
kieranl
6/06/2013
4:03:45 PM
On 6/06/2013 yosemite05 wrote:
>http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-glbl
>
Yes, that's a BD web page. Was there a point?

freesolo
6/06/2013
4:07:47 PM
the picture. s;;;;it happens. the rock in that picture would probably kill anyone with a helmet and it looks sharp enough to slice the rope. luckily, those don't happen very often.
Wollemi
6/06/2013
4:54:40 PM
On 5/06/2013 White Trash wrote:

>>>It seems like the leader dislodged the rock that killed his partner.
>>
>>
>>Sadly the question is not hypothetical, but I'm interested in hearing
>>views: how would you extract yourself in that situation?
>>The leader was more than 1/2 a rope length up the pitch.
>>

>guess i would... tie off short each time and take falls piece
>to piece (possibly removing some them as I go), till back at belay


With each fall from piece to piece, wouldn't you be jolting and then jerking your prone injured climbing partner?

Tie off the rope to bomber pro or the bolt you are at, and prusik down to your companion. This may still jerk at them if the rope is tight at the belay for whatever reason.

There are 18 messages in this topic.

 

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