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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 3 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140
Author
Climber injured in bluies after 30m fall 2/Jan/13
maadness
14/01/2013
5:30:27 PM
Hi Rock turtle. Hope you and your partner have a successful recovery, but sadly, whatever you write, it will never end the speculation. This is Chockstone remember!

Miguel75
14/01/2013
5:34:13 PM
Far out Rock Turtle, sorry to hear of your injuries, your partners as well, and pray for a speedy recovery for you both.

Thanks for taking time out to share your tale.
Rock turtle
14/01/2013
6:40:39 PM
Yes, unfortunately 3 point anchor was removed to walk along the ledge and not reset when we walked back as we were still scouting the route. This would be my biggest mistake I would say.

The cam which was placed as a hard point for my belayer was placed in the horizontal crack. For it to pull I would say even if 2 cams were placed they may still have pulled as the force seemed to have a large horizontal component, probably from the nut placement out to the left. If a 3rd piece was placed in the vertical crack on the right I believe that would have held.

Things I would do again, rebuild the 3 point anchor even when on a big ledge looking for the route.

Myself personally I don't think I'll be climbing trad routes unless I have a clear toppo, or BOMBPROOF beta
kieranl
14/01/2013
7:35:02 PM
Glad you're both recovering despite very nasty injuries. Things didn't look good there for a while.

nmonteith
14/01/2013
7:36:50 PM
On 14/01/2013 Rock turtle wrote:
>Things I would do again, rebuild the 3 point anchor even when on a big
>ledge looking for the route.
>
>Myself personally I don't think I'll be climbing trad routes unless I
>have a clear toppo, or BOMBPROOF beta

Thanks for the clarification - I'm sure many of us on this forum have done similar things! This is a lesson for us all.
Olbert
14/01/2013
7:40:30 PM
On 14/01/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>Far out Rock Turtle, sorry to hear of your injuries, your partners as well,
>and pray for a speedy recovery for you both.
>
>Thanks for taking time out to share your tale.

+1
Mr Poopypants
14/01/2013
8:45:31 PM
Good on you for posting Rock Turtle.
I've had exact same injuries (32 yrs ago) and am still rambling around, keep your chin up.

The info really is quite important, reminds us that we are all mortal and little things can bring us undone. Bugger of a thing to happen, but could have ended a lot worse.

Hope you get back home soon.

Cheers
G.
patto
14/01/2013
10:05:09 PM
Thank you very much Rock turtle for telling the story. I'm very glad you guys are on the mend!

On 14/01/2013 maadness wrote:
>Hi Rock turtle. Hope you and your partner have a successful recovery,
>but sadly, whatever you write, it will never end the speculation.

Why is this sadly? That is the wrong attitude IMO. If there is room for learning, discussion and/or speculation then why is that wrong. From this we can learn and hopefully make ourselves safer.

That said a comprehensive explanation as has been given will do a good job of minimising further speculation.

Sabu
15/01/2013
9:18:38 AM
Yep thank you very much for sharing Rock Turtle. A lesson and reminder for us all.

All the best for your recovery and your partner too. Hope you get the green light soon.
One Day Hero
15/01/2013
9:46:17 AM
On 15/01/2013 Sabu wrote:
>Yep thank you very much for sharing Rock Turtle. A lesson and reminder
>for us all.

What's the lesson?
bones
15/01/2013
9:52:16 AM
On 15/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 15/01/2013 Sabu wrote:
>>Yep thank you very much for sharing Rock Turtle. A lesson and reminder
>>for us all.
>
>What's the lesson?

Don't compromise on your anchor, even when you think you're just scrambing around or route finding?
Direction of gear is important?

Many people cut corners to speed things up when they think they're safe, it's worthwhile reflecting on what can happen, even if you decide the risk is low and do it anyway
maadness
15/01/2013
10:04:16 AM
Patto, i find it sad because because IMO speculation is like assuming and is usually wrong. Climbing is a dangerous activity, so when there is an accident i find it better to wait a couple weeks until the people that were directly involved are able to give some details of where they were/what they were doing. Until then, it's only guess work and that can lead to more incidents.
One Day Hero
15/01/2013
10:10:54 AM
On 15/01/2013 bones wrote:
>Don't compromise on your anchor, even when you think you're just scrambing
>around or route finding?

So when I bring my second up to a mid-route anchor on a multipitch route, I shouldn't disassemble the anchor before leading the next pitch?

shortman
15/01/2013
10:14:36 AM
On 15/01/2013 maadness wrote:
>Patto, i find it sad because because IMO speculation is like assuming
Until then, it's only guess work and that can
>lead to more incidents.

Um??......speculation is running rampant.

Climboholic
15/01/2013
11:17:34 AM
On 15/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 15/01/2013 bones wrote:
>>Don't compromise on your anchor, even when you think you're just scrambing
>>around or route finding?
>
>So when I bring my second up to a mid-route anchor on a multipitch route,
>I shouldn't disassemble the anchor before leading the next pitch?

I well and truly get your point ODH. Maybe the lesson should be to not get complacent.
mikllaw
15/01/2013
12:05:43 PM
On Blue Mountains choss you have to be some sort of hero (even just for one day) to lead easy trad.
simey
15/01/2013
12:52:11 PM
On 15/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 15/01/2013 Sabu wrote:
>>Yep thank you very much for sharing Rock Turtle. A lesson and reminder for us all.
>
>What's the lesson?

I tend to agree ODH. I don't think there has been much reflection and analysis of this accident to fully understand the series of minor events that have led to this mishap. Without wanting to sound like a sanctimonious prick (as we all make mistakes), I can identify a few things...

Rock Turtle says in first post...
>We consider ourselves pretty experienced climbers with 8 years outdoor combined experience and normally very careful. We chose Piddington that day because it was a popular area, easy grades, well travelled, and from what we could tell in the guidebook, well marked.

1. Firstly, 8 years combined experience doesn't mean a whole lot of experience (although it all depends on what you have fitted into those years). I have heard it said that if you survive your first five years of climbing, there is a good chance that you will survive many more. Sounds like you have just enough experience to get yourself into trouble, but perhaps not enough experience to fully appreciate all the potential dangers.

2. Whilst Piddington is a good choice of crag for what you wanted to do, there was possibly a degree of casualness, or an assumption that everything would be straightforward. Once you get off the ground then any route is capable of killing you, irrespective of its grade or popularity, so treat every climb with respect and don't become complacent.

In a later post Rock Turtle says...
>Myself personally I don't think I'll be climbing trad routes unless I have a clear topo, or BOMBPROOF beta.

3. This thinking shows me that you feel that somehow the accident is not entirely your fault and that somehow the guidebook is to blame. It is impossible for a guidebook to warn you of every conceivable danger. Ultimately climbing is about making your own decisions about what is right for you on the day.

>I placed a cam deep into the horizontal crack for my partner to clip into.

4. This is the anchor you had as the belay and which ultimately failed. Although you have mentioned that you should have rebuilt your three-point anchor, I am keen to know why this placement failed. Single point belays still work (providing you have a good placement!) Did you think this was a good piece? And if so, why did it fail?

>My right hand came across what felt like a bomber crimpy flake...

5. This is the reference to the handhold that eventually broke on you causing you to fall. I am curious to know whether this handhold felt bomber (as in to grab,) or did it feel bomber in that is wasn't going to part company with the cliff? Learning to assess the solidness of rock is an important skill in climbing. But having said that I have experienced holds breaking that I thought were completely solid, so I am aware that the unexpected can happen.

Anyway, it is great to hear that you are both recovering well. I doubt there is anyone in the world of climbing who hasn't had an accident or near miss during their climbing careers. Accidents like this are great for imagining all sorts of horrible scenarios next time you go climbing. Just take your time and deal with these thoughts as they arise and don't let them overwhelm you.


bones
15/01/2013
1:54:21 PM
On 15/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 15/01/2013 bones wrote:
>>Don't compromise on your anchor, even when you think you're just scrambing
>>around or route finding?
>
>So when I bring my second up to a mid-route anchor on a multipitch route,
>I shouldn't disassemble the anchor before leading the next pitch?

When you put it like that it's obvious, but sometimes, particularly in alpine climbing, I may do some unroped scrambling pitches, or simulclimbing without much gear, to save time. Also, I often disassemble the anchor at the top of a climb instead of staying roped until I know what the scramble off might be.
All these accidents feed into an overall risk assessment when weighing up speed against safety..

IdratherbeclimbingM9
15/01/2013
3:18:57 PM
On 15/01/2013 simey wrote:
>On 15/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>>On 15/01/2013 Sabu wrote:
>>>Yep thank you very much for sharing Rock Turtle. A lesson and reminder
>for us all.
>>
>>What's the lesson?
>
>I tend to agree ODH. I don't think there has been much reflection and
>analysis of this accident to fully understand the series of minor events
>that have led to this mishap. Without wanting to sound like a sanctimonious
>prick (as we all make mistakes), I can identify a few things...
>
>Rock Turtle says in first post...
>>We consider ourselves pretty experienced climbers with 8 years outdoor
>combined experience and normally very careful. We chose Piddington that
>day because it was a popular area, easy grades, well travelled, and from
>what we could tell in the guidebook, well marked.
>
>1. Firstly, 8 years combined experience doesn't mean a whole lot of experience
>(although it all depends on what you have fitted into those years). I have
>heard it said that if you survive your first five years of climbing, there
>is a good chance that you will survive many more. Sounds like you have
>just enough experience to get yourself into trouble, but perhaps not enough
>experience to fully appreciate all the potential dangers.
>
>2. Whilst Piddington is a good choice of crag for what you wanted to do,
>there was possibly a degree of casualness, or an assumption that everything
>would be straightforward. Once you get off the ground any route is capable
>of killing you, irrespective of its grade or popularity, so treat every
>climb with respect and don't become complacent.
>
>In a later post Rock Turtle says...
>>Myself personally I don't think I'll be climbing trad routes unless I
>have a clear topo, or BOMBPROOF beta.
>
>3. This thinking shows me that you feel that somehow the accident is not
>entirely your fault and that somehow the guidebook is to blame. It is impossible
>for a guidebook to warn you of every conceivable danger. Ultimately climbing
>is about making your own decisions about what is right for you on the day.
>
>>I placed a cam deep into the horizontal crack for my partner to clip
>into.
>
>4. This is the anchor you had as the belay and which ultimately failed.
>Although you have mentioned that you should have rebuilt your three-point
>anchor, I am keen to know why this placement failed. Single point belays
>still work (providing you have a good placement!) Did you think this was
>a good piece? And if so, why did it fail?
>
>>My right hand came across what felt like a bomber crimpy flake...
>
>5. This is the reference to the handhold that eventually broke on you
>causing you to fall. I am curious to know whether this handhold felt bomber
>(as in to grab,) or did it feel bomber in that is wasn't going to part
>company with the cliff? Learning to assess the solidness of rock is an
>important skill in climbing. But having said that I have experienced holds
>breaking that I thought were completely solid, so I am aware that the unexpected
>can happen.
>
>Anyway, it is great to hear that you are both recovering well. I doubt
>there is anyone in the world of climbing who hasn't had an accident or
>near miss during their climbing careers. Accidents like this are great
>for imagining all sorts of horrible scenarios next time you go climbing.
>Just take your time and deal with these thoughts as they arise and don't
>let them overwhelm you.
>
Without blowing wind up you simey, that was an excellent post, as I (possibly like ODH too), felt that the real issues had not been resolved, when I read the original post that yours is based on.
mikllaw
15/01/2013
3:19:35 PM
Has anyone climbed 'whatever you like'? I don't think I have.

The route on the right that they had a look at was masochist I think, a scary 18

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There are 140 messages in this topic.

 

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