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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 59
Author
Fixed draw cuts rope ~> fatality
One Day Hero
23/10/2012
7:02:20 PM
On 23/10/2012 Doug wrote:
>Maybe there is some little niche of rock in Australia
>where that might happen some day, but it's not what you'd want to see generally.

Why are you talking like it's something to mull over for the future? These things are already on a bunch of routes at Nowra, and more than likely in the Blueys too.

Doug
23/10/2012
8:43:47 PM
On 23/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Why are you talking like it's something to mull over for the future? These
>things are already on a bunch of routes at Nowra, and more than likely
>in the Blueys too.
Because I was responding to this: "Anyway perma-draws are stupid spurt convenience that have no place in Australia!"

Seb
24/10/2012
10:49:03 AM
I am actually somebody who has put up perma-draws on two climbs in nowra. Muscle Hustler and The Hustler. In my case these draws are not there permanently just until me and my wife tick them with abit of luck. Yes perma-draws are a soft option no doubt but when you are only have one or two shots at a climb once in a while and these climbs are a bitch to clean it does make life abit easier. These two climbs are great climbs but not if you have to clean the draws everytime you cut a lap, so most people just do them the once and never repeat them which I think is a shame. Anyway like I said these draws will be removed in due time, I got to say I didn't think people would be so negative to draws on 20m+ roof climbs.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/10/2012
12:33:51 PM
On 22/10/2012 Macciza wrote:
>Anyway perma-draws are stupid spurt convenience that have no place in Australia!
>If you can't put draws on a climb, go back to the perm-a-gym . . .

+1
... and as an aside, the comments regarding this practice maybe validly filling a niche, ... rings the same bell as similar comments about bolts back in the day-
~> thin end of the wedge and all that stuff!


davidn
24/10/2012
1:41:21 PM
Thin end of the wedge? What are you suggesting will come next? Permadraws on trad routes? Permadraws on staircases?

The good Dr
24/10/2012
4:32:45 PM
On 24/10/2012 davidn wrote:
>Thin end of the wedge? What are you suggesting will come next? Permadraws
>on trad routes? Permadraws on staircases?


Next you will be suggesting fixed gear on trad routes ... oh sorry, they have been doing that since the 60's ;)

SteveC
24/10/2012
4:33:40 PM
On 24/10/2012 Seb wrote:
In my case these draws are not there permanently


If the draws are not there permanently, then they probably don't fully fit the bill as perma(nent) draws.
Leaving draws on routes for weeks on end as bait to drag yourself back to some wretched project is a time honoured tradition. But when there are UV faded draws with biners that don't close quicklinked onto bolts, then we are talking more about perma draws as i think most people have found them.
I don't know, maybe the unwritten intention is that they get replaced each 'season'. Just like the fixing of the ropes on Everest each season.


E. Wells
24/10/2012
7:53:00 PM
The thing is Seb, I, like my 4"11 partner and many others have done these climbs putting draws on. I took great pleasure in flashing muscle hustler putting draws on (I watched someone try it the week before) and when we were done we take them off. It takes about ten minutes and its called 'back cleaning'. This is actually a fantastic training tool as you get to climb the jugs backwards and your belayer learns how to pay attention. If you backclimbed it every shot you would send it in no time. P.s I thought the 24 was a bit harder (putting draws on)
One Day Hero
24/10/2012
8:47:01 PM
Haha, this thread has gotten awesome. Those permadraws have been hanging on the pair of 24s for two years now! Seb, did you really think "hmmm, this siege might take a while........I know, I'll lay out 300 bucks on gear specifically so that I can attempt these moderate roof climbs every once in a while without having to worry about backjumping"? Also, what's the next proj once you tick the overgraded sandpit known as Muscle Hustler? Gonna hang yer permadraws down Stonies for a couple of years?

davidn
25/10/2012
7:00:36 AM
On 24/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Haha, moderate roof climbs, overgraded sandpit

You worry far too much about grades mate!
One Day Hero
25/10/2012
8:26:14 AM
On 25/10/2012 davidn wrote:
>On 24/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>>Haha, moderate roof climbs, overgraded sandpit
>
>You worry far too much about grades mate!

You seem to have missed the class where they explained that the easiest way to get a rise out of sport climbers/boulderers is to dismissively downgrade their "proudest send"/"inspirational project".

But in all seriousness, Muscle Hustler is easier than all the gr25 roofs and at least one of the gr24 roofs at Nowra.........why do you think so many people queue for it?

Seb
25/10/2012
11:25:26 AM
I don't climb things for the grades. I climb them because I like climbing. The perma-draws have been there since Jan. Its when I put them there. Why is the grade of the climb important in this discussion? I am sure its easy for lots of people but its not easy for me. If its grade 24 or 25 or 26 what's the difference?

From what I see around alot of people leave draws on their roof projects. I thought leaving perma-draws for an extended time was better the leaving regular draws.

So if I hung my draws on a 32 and layed out 300 bucks it would be ok but because I am a shit climber its not?

The only real question here is does it interfere with other peoples climbing. I would like to hear peoples opinion on that, if it does have a big impact on their enjoyment of a particular climb?




shortman
25/10/2012
11:52:30 AM
On 25/10/2012 Seb wrote:
>The only real question here is does it interfere with other peoples climbing.
>I would like to hear peoples opinion on that, if it does have a big impact
>on their enjoyment of a particular climb?
>
It might have something to do with the visual aspect too.

Snappy
25/10/2012
12:14:17 PM
You mean the visual impact compared to the pristine rock covered in chalk, bolts and a 70kg screaming meat bag?

If it's a popular climb it's probably going to have draws on it first thing in the morning anyway?

Permadraws are useful if, cleaning the route will be difficult and also allow you to give every shot (including your last) everything - otherwise you might stop the last shot you think you can realistically get to the top, rather than giving it another go.

E. Wells
25/10/2012
6:26:02 PM
There are alot of people that get an extra kick out of onsighting, especially a soft (the rock, that is) 26, so I think it does effect some peoples experience, however I suspect that the hoards that have actually noticed and tried it and appreciated the permadraws probably out number those that want an onsight. I havent been there for a long time but my only reaction was that of bewilderment that the rope drag isnt a bitch because I had to use a whole bunch of long stuff up there to keep it smooth and from memory the permas are all kinda the same length, maybe Im wrong. Anyway, it does deny people a fresh shot at onsights , is that important? I hear you about the grade thing but I guess some of those 30+ things are epic just getting them on, whereas the climbs in question have very large holds the whole way. Just move fast, and after traversing the first jugs left, turn out,press your head against the roof and get a complete hands free rest????maybe???anything I can do to get those permadraws down :-)
One Day Hero
25/10/2012
10:29:29 PM
On 25/10/2012 Seb wrote:
>The only real question here is does it interfere with other peoples climbing.
>I would like to hear peoples opinion on that, if it does have a big impact
>on their enjoyment of a particular climb?

Look, this is all about the fish that John West rejects. I've got a bunch of mates who left climbing for other sports such as running, kayaking, and even road cycling. I often have to listen to these guys rib me about how soft climbing has gotten...............a fuching roadie with his shaved legs and stupid little mini-cap is giving me shit about how effeminate my sport is! That's not good.

Here's the thing. If you can't warm up by going bolt to bolt to get the draws on, you aren't good enough to tick the route. If you can't backjump the draws off in 10 minutes, or if you can't dog through to the top even when utterly boxed........you aren't good enough to tick the route. That's not even being mean, just an honest appraisal of what's involved in climbing those things. If you're blowing up in the 2m between bolts, how are you ever going to link 20m together? So those fixed draws aren't even helping you to tick the route, they're allowing you to attempt the route even though you're lazy. Toughen the fuch up Seb.
TonyB
26/10/2012
6:32:24 AM
On 25/10/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

> ... how effeminate my sport is! That's not good.

That's explains ODH's macho stupidity. ODH has doubts about his manhood !

Seb
26/10/2012
10:24:42 AM
ODH, its interesting that you find my level of toughness important. You should be happy that people like me exist, if everyone was like Alex Honnold your alpha status would be highly questionable. If you want to make climbing seem more masculine you better get all the women to stop climbing especially the ones that climb harder then you. Maybe MMA is a better option but I think they have women in that too. Not sure I get the John West thing are you saying only people with a certain gonad circumference should climb or that your friends are fish?

This thread shows an interesting perspective into peoples minds. So I will add abit to the story.

Some time in Jan I had a go at the hustler and so did my wife she does not usually like highly overhung climbing. She did ok on it, I did not tick it that day. So I thought that this is something we can work on together. I put on the perma-draws in the thought that she would work the hustler and I would work on the muscle hustler in the future. The main reason for this was to encourage her to try steeper climbs. The hustler might be abit beyond what she can do right now but there is nothing wrong with working on your weakness. For us to be able to do this without the perma-draws means I have to go up hustler put the draws then put the draws on muscle hustler then have a go a trying to actually do muscle hustler then clean both routes at the end of the day. At this point you are right ODH I am not capable of doing that. We have not been on the climbs as often as I would have liked this year. I think all up its been on five different days but we only try them when my wife wants to have ago at the hustler.

Whether I am going bolt to bolt or hiking it to the end and just not making the top is not really important to this story. We are enjoying the experience together and that is the important bit to me. Saying that I don't want to do something that makes everyone else experience on the climb not as good by leaving draws on the there forever. I do have to say that most people at the crag are very positive about the draws on these climbs. At least no one has said you are a soft c--k for leave the perma-draws there get them down now.

One Day Hero
26/10/2012
12:08:05 PM
That's right Seb, I'm saying that all my friends are fish.

Ah, I was gonna go off on a rant but I couldn't be fuched. Sounds like you might be treading rather delicately through a minefield there, good luck with that.

If your draws are still up next time I go to tommo's, I'll leave 'em at the base of the route.
gfdonc
26/10/2012
12:15:52 PM
Permadraws are kinda like litter aren't they? What is one man's trash is another man's treasure, so they say.

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There are 59 messages in this topic.

 

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