Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop

DMM: New DMM "Belay Master 2" screwgate. I-beam construction and plastic clip. (State of the Art!) N/B Only 1 left!  $25.00
28% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - Find Climbers

Find Climbers In Your Area

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 97
Author
looking for instruction

Cookie
18/11/2008
8:56:43 AM
As most of you know, i have been climbing with my partner indoors for approx 5 - 6 months (cant remember) and am desperate to get outside.
well, we had a trip all planned with what we had hoped to be our mentor, but he has... to put this politely... been pulling our leg (sans bells). so the weekend trip to werribee is now off.... absolutely... shattered.

so we are basically looking for a new mentor. if anyone is interested in taking us out on our first outdoor experience (daytrip probably the best option, so somewhere close) to teach us how to set up our own toprope, anchor etc... so we will be competent enough to do it on our own i would love to hear from you. was hoping for this weekend or next. (have cleared schedule) failing that, i'm just going to go and get a bleeding book and do it myself :D

westie
18/11/2008
8:59:55 AM
On 18/11/2008 Cookie wrote:

>so we are basically looking for a new mentor.

sent you a PM.
widewetandslippery
18/11/2008
11:37:43 AM
On 18/11/2008 Cookie wrote:

>schedule) failing that, i'm just going to go and get a bleeding book and
>do it myself :D

Go buy a book, by lots of books. And find a mentor. There are no right ways, just better ways and really bad ways to do things. Avoiding the really bad things is the most important thing.

bluey
18/11/2008
12:41:18 PM
Hey Cookie,

I'm definitely a fan of the master/apprentice approach because often a course is very informative but only for a short period of time - and when you're learning, you need lots of reminders, reinforcement etc. And it takes a long time for all the info to sink in. So having an ongoing mentor is ideal.

That said, when you're starting out, you aren't necessarily well equipped to judge whether you are being taught the right stuff. And if you're taught the wrong stuff and you go and use it, well, a dodgy anchor or toprope setup is incredibly dangerous.

I've taken out newbies to second me on stuff but I would be very reluctant to teach anyone toprope or anchor set ups just because it's a huge deal if they use that info wrongly or I forget to mention something. I'd be wary of people who are super confident about teaching you such stuff unless they are really experienced climbers - and I'm talking years and years on trad, or some decent guiding experience. It's worth noting that formal quals for teaching someone to lead/set up topropes/anchors are quite a way up the scale from just guiding someone on a route.

So my suggestion is find people to second stuff outdoors with first. Make an initial judgement about whether they are experienced enough. Then second lots and lots and observe their practices, anchor set ups, and ask LOTs of questions. Climb with a range of people and question why they do things a certain way. Then, once you've got the knowledge and have a feel for what good gear and set ups look like, ask the most knowledgeable/experienced of your climbing partners to help you do some anchor- practice - pick a safe ledge or ground level to give it a try before you rely on it on a climb.

And books, well I find it hard to visualize tech stuff from books even when they have diagrams - but they're definitely good for reinforcing (or shooting down) stuff you've seen people do or been told about.

Good luck!

mikl law
18/11/2008
12:52:30 PM
both appraoches are essential
when you work it out yourself, you 'own' the knowledge and understand it better. But there will be heaps of things you won't work out yourself.

Just turning up at a crag and watching everything that goes on can teach you heaps, and make slack belayers paranoid

Epic Steve
18/11/2008
1:21:44 PM
Why do so many people find it so hard to pay a qualified climbing instructor or guide, when they will :

1/ Be fully qualified and have local knowledge and experience...not to mention be good fun!

2/ Be fully insured (or should be...so make sure you ask them if they are...!)

3/ Will usually fit into whatever time frame/date you need...that is when it is most convenient for the client

4/ Will teach you the right stuff, that is industry best practice techniques

5/ Once you have these skills, you can keep them current with the use of books and practice, practice, practice...

6/ For most people, it will be the best few hundred dollars they will ever spend...if it keeps you safe and out of hospital...then it's a bargain!!! Most people will happily spend thousands on an alpine climbing/mountaineering course (for their first time...) for fear of getting killed by making a basic mistake...and that's for something we might only do once a year...rock climbing is no less forgiving, and we might be doing this every single weekend, so statistically the odds are far greater of a mishap whilst at your local crag...especially doing the basics like top rope setups, abseiling, etc. Once you get into trad leading, anchor building and multi pitch climbing, the risks increase even more....so start with the right attitude (that is don't expect to be leading Flight Of The Phoenix next week, when you don't even know how to set up a top rope safely...), get good at the basics then you can move on to the next level...that's pretty much how we all learn, so get skilled up

7/ What is your life worth...??? Surely more than a few hundred bucks???

8/ A good mentor is not a substitute or excuse to not get some qualified instruction, at some stage of your climbing career...mentors are happy to assist new climbers along the path to safe practices but many do not necessarily want the added responsibility or possible liability of teaching someone new...plus some of them just want to climb...where as a qualified climbing instructor has this factored into his overall business structure (experience, insurance, quals, permits, time, etc)...EVEN GOOD MENTORS WILL OCCASIONALLY USE THE SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE OF A GOOD CLIMBING INSTRUCTOR TO KEEP THEM SHARP, LEARN NEW OR MORE ADVANCED SKILLS AND TO AVOID ANY BAD HABITS/PRACTICES CREEPING IN...

9/ It's good to support your local climbing instructors/guides...that's what they are there for!

10/ What ever you do...climb safe...don't get c--ky and remember, gravity ALWAYS wins!!

Steve

evanbb
18/11/2008
1:37:31 PM
On 18/11/2008 Epic Steve wrote:
>Why do so many people find it so hard to pay a qualified climbing instructor
>or guide, when they will :

I guess part of the problem is their motivation. A guide will want to give you an awesome day's climbing. That's a good thing. However, it won't be much of a priority for them to give you the skills to go out on your own in future. it could even be considered counter productive for them to do so. On the other hand, if you can tag along with a motivated leader, they'll want you to get up to speed fast, and not die, so that you can belay them on their projects. I quite like taking people out for that reason. I've been grooming a couple of prospectives lately (taken out of context that could appear a dodgy sentence) who are loving their climbing, and really happy to tag along on what ever I want to lead. Everyone wins! I get to spend a lot of time on the sharp end, and watch struggling, swearing seconds, thus further inflating my ego, and they get a patient leader, eager to teach them the ways of the rock. A good system in my opinion.

Robb
18/11/2008
1:47:10 PM
On 18/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>
>I guess part of the problem is their motivation. A guide will want to
>give you an awesome day's climbing. That's a good thing. However, it won't
>be much of a priority for them to give you the skills to go out on your
>own in future. it could even be considered counter productive for them
>to do so.

Im sure if you ask a guide/instructor to teach you the skills , they will oblige. Always depends on what you are after. some people just want a day out climbing. some people want to learn the skills. a guide should be able to do both.

Cookie
18/11/2008
1:55:53 PM
Thanks guys :)

Bluey, I agree somewhat, but i really want to start at the basics, I also feel that i will become more confident on real rock while top-roping.. then ill get into the more fun stuff : ) maybe in a month or two ill be ready.

Epic Steve.... *clears throat*
I have no qualms whatsoever with paying for a qualified guide, infact i have been researching into this, unfortunately, all of the ones i could find were in the Grampians, and being situated in the CBD, and wanting something short and sweet for a weekend daytrip, made that a little harder..
I also have no qualms about going out with experienced climber(s) offering to teach newbies how they do it... and considering they arenít dead, its a pretty good track record to me.. I would assume that their is no liability as there is no transaction with an apprentice type situation, and anyway, if i took a spill, i wouldnít turn around to someone who, out of the kindness of their heart, has wasted their day with a couple of bumblies to perpetuate this awesome sport and say "Iím going to sue you." no way.. if i fall it's nobodies fault but mine.
as for trad and lead climbing, yes, i am planning on paying an instructor to take me out for that in the beginning, due to the fact that you aren't dangling from a top-rope and if you fall you better be sure you know how to put in protection... but until that day, all i need is a kind soul to show me how to anchor and construct a top-rope... im a pretty smart cookie and can catch on quickly.... i donít need to pay someone with a piece of paper for that..




mikl law
18/11/2008
2:01:11 PM
Also- If someone agrees to take you out, be a good student- pick them up (or at least be on time), carry the big packs, coil the ropes and buy the beers.
You're proabaly a nice person so none of it is strictly neccesary, but it shows that their efforts are appreciated. It's a lot slower with abeginner - even if they are quick, as everything 'should' be expained to them.

I also have a set of notes for peopel transitioning from gym to rock if you weant to PM or email me

bluey
18/11/2008
2:13:56 PM
On 18/11/2008 Cookie wrote:
>Thanks guys :)
>
>Bluey, I agree somewhat, but i really want to start at the basics, I also
>feel that i will become more confident on real rock while top-roping..
>then ill get into the more fun stuff : ) maybe in a month or two ill be
>ready.

I guess I would argue that the basics are either toproping off an experienced person's set up or seconding off an experienced person's lead. But I don't think it should include doing your own toprope/anchor set-ups for a while yet.

IMO, toproping kinda kills the journey-feel that comes with outdoor climbing. And I'm sure you'll find that when you've been outdoors a couple of times. If you're feeling a bit wary about the whole outdoor adventure and keen to stick to "basics" get someone to take you up some easy single pitches - there are heaps of super easy awesome routes to follow someone up that aren't too intimidating including single pitches you can just amble off the back of e.g.Bushrangers bluff or head out to Mitre Rock (both at Araps).

Cookie
18/11/2008
2:15:01 PM
On 18/11/2008 mikl law wrote:
>Also- If someone agrees to take you out, be a good student- pick them up
>(or at least be on time), carry the big packs, coil the ropes and buy the
>beers.
>You're proabaly a nice person so none of it is strictly neccesary, but
>it shows that their efforts are appreciated. It's a lot slower with abeginner
>- even if they are quick, as everything 'should' be expained to them.

bleugh, beer. i'm happy to be the donkey in exchange for knowledge, just dont make me drink that ick.
hipster
18/11/2008
2:24:19 PM
On 18/11/2008 Epic Steve wrote:
> >9/ It's good to support your local climbing instructors/guides...that's
>what they are there for!
>

Why should they be supported Steve?? Don't see them doing much where I live in the Blue Mountains. They don't re-bolt, do trackwork, or in any way represent the climbing community up here. They pay a yearly fee to the local Council and that's it...
Isn't it all part of the process of forming friendships through climbing experiences..that's what makes climbing so good. Find a mentor, or join a club Cookie, you'll have a ball!!

evanbb
18/11/2008
2:27:33 PM
You're in Melbourne aren't you Cookie? I'll take you up the Blueys if you're ever in town. I'm totally in favour of the learn from an old hand school of thought. That said, I've never paid anyone to take me climbing.

Twitch
18/11/2008
2:32:23 PM
On 18/11/2008 Cookie wrote:
>and considering they arenít dead, its a pretty good track record to me..

hmm...I wouldn't put my life in someone's hands just because they 'aren't dead'. there are some shockers out there that must just be really lucky.

Cookie
18/11/2008
2:54:42 PM
On 18/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>You're in Melbourne aren't you Cookie? I'll take you up the Blueys if you're
>ever in town. I'm totally in favour of the learn from an old hand school
>of thought. That said, I've never paid anyone to take me climbing.

you mean.... leave victoria?? me?? actually.. you know the one thing that would get me out of this state in my life WOULD be rockclimbing... and that's saying something :)
i might just be planning me a trip up to "here be dragons"-land sometime soon with an offer like that :) thanks :)


>hmm...I wouldn't put my life in someone's hands just because they 'aren't dead'. there >are some shockers out there that must just be really lucky.

ok, ok.. i admit, it was a bit of a stupid call... but what majority of people who are experienced are shockers? it can't be too many, therwise there would be a lot more reports of accidents and a general kyboshing of the sport by groundfolk. :D

IdratherbeclimbingM9
18/11/2008
3:00:12 PM
>but what majority of people who are experienced are shockers? it can't be too many

You only need one, to ruin your day ...

Twitch
18/11/2008
3:10:09 PM
>but what majority of people who are experienced are shockers? it can't be too many, therwise there would be a lot more reports of accidents

It just sounds like you are willing to ask any random of the street to take you out for a climb. Some people are quite confident with their skills despite their lack of experience in a variety of situations. All I'm saying is just be careful :)

Li
18/11/2008
3:10:11 PM
Hi there....I've done both - climbed with a mentor and paid for a guide to teach me. My mentor/friend lives in the States so unfortunately isn't around to go climbing with me anymore. However, we did spend a couple of weeks climbing at Arapiles and at Buffalo - a solid couple of weeks climbing every day. I learnt heaps and he was very thorough. I must admit, he had to keep repeating things to me as there was SO much to take in and it seemed quite overwhelming. He also pushed me out of my comfort zone (in a safe way) and had me extending myself. I found it really satisfying and felt a great sense of achievement at the end of each day. I had no qualms about placing my trust in him as he was really thorough (bordering on anal!).

I also climbed with a guide at Arapiles - expensive but worth it. He taught me how to set up top rope anchors and place protection - that was my objective at the time.

Both are good - I will definitely pay for another guide at some stage. However, if you can find an experienced/safe mentor to climb regularly with, you will get a stackload of experience under your belt and not forget what you've learned. I am in the situation where I also don't have a mentor anymore and I'm not climbing regularly enough, so by the time I get to go climbing again I feel like I'm just starting out and feel like I'm fumbling. Very frustrating. Not to mention the fact that I have moved house to Venus Bay....not a lot of good climbing down this way! What was I thinking?!

Li

Epic Steve
18/11/2008
3:12:17 PM
Hey Cookie

Start off slow and you'll be right...as for shockers...they are around, gravity or the grim reaper just haven't caught up with them as they haven't linked enough bad habits together to form the usual accident chain/scenario (usually never one thing that causes an accident but an accumulation of numerous things happening sequentially...)

Remember if you get hurt or killed...it won't be YOU suing anyone (assuming worst case scenario of death, coma or brain injured)...it is usually your family who normally know nothing about climbing (as do the lawyers they could hire...). It hasn't happen here in Oz but just a matter of time...

As for guiding companies not helping the local climbing community out (Blueys, Araps or Gramps)...might be worth contacting the company owners and asking what they are prepared to do...I know a particular company that used to help out with taking disadvantaged kids on climbing activities (pro bono) as a community service...should be more of it!!!

Climb safe

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 97
There are 97 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints