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Wannabe mountaineers?

mrx78u

9-Aug-2006
1:13:41 PM

I guess there's probably alot of people on the forum, who are probably in a similar position to me on this one. I'm looking to make the advance from trad to mountaineering, and have been thinking for a while of the best way to go about this.

I was considering taking one of the alpine guides TMCs (technical mountaineering courses) in NZ, but it's been suggested to me that because I'm already a reasonably experienced trad climber, that I should be looking at hiring a guide, and having them train me.

This way, We could be learning what we need to know, and more technical stuff, rather than spending time on things that we're probably already compitent with.

So i'm basically looking for any suggestions on doing this, and a few like minded people of similar experience. I'd be considering doing this some time next year.

jonorock

9-Aug-2006
2:24:28 PM

If you can find 2-3 other people with similar climbing experience and fitness and book a private course which is probably a bit more expensive. That way you can tell the guide exactly what you would like out of the course. It's not much fun spending half a day in the mountains learning to tie a figure of 8 and prussicking when you should be climbing.
There are a few big guiding companies in NZ, which all charge a lot of $$ per day. There are also a couple of smaller ones that are cheaper. They all offer similar programs. I would go for one with less people and as many days as you can afford (need to allow for bad weather).
What you want out of a course is the technical knowledge and also to gain confidence in yourself that you can go into the mountains without a guide. Good luck.

mrx78u

9-Aug-2006
2:40:10 PM

Sounds like good advice, thanks for that jonorock

JohnK

9-Aug-2006
3:27:35 PM

I agree with Jonorock that ideally is a better option.

If you cannot afford a personal guide because you cannot get together with others, a TMC course is a good alternative. What you can do is try and get into a group with small numbers - explain this to the guiding Co that's what you are after.
When I did a TMC with Alpine Guides there were only 3 students and 1 very experienced and tough guide. As a bonus, we had a trainee type guide with us for most of the time as well so excellent ratio. There was very little emphasis on the basic stuff, we just got out there ASAP and climbed everything we could.

The alternative for you is also to perhaps hook up with someone that is an experienced mountaineer here in OZ, get some gear and self teach yourself some basic stuff by doing trips to the victorian and NSW alps and then head over to NZ and get on an Advanced TMC type course.

Anyhow, only my 2 cents worth! so hope it helps.

LGJ

9-Aug-2006
9:04:50 PM

I also agree with jonorock.

I heard much the same as you prior to booking a course - that the TMC and similar courses with other co's could be a dissapointment if you already had a bit of rock experience. So 3 of us hired a guide for 8 days and it was excellent - I definately reccomend doing that.


Daveo

10-Aug-2006
8:59:12 AM

i was looking a feb best place to start talk to a guide from http://www.nzmga.org.nz/ all the pros im in the exact same way with the direction of training and also go to blue lake NSW hook up with some guys there and have some practice
good luck

mrx78u

10-Aug-2006
9:29:10 AM

Thanks, I've send an email to a couple of guides from NZMGA, so i'll let you know how I go there. Blue Lake?


Daveo

10-Aug-2006
11:45:13 AM

blue lake snowy mountains ice climbing & mixed well the closest we can get to it

Bob Saki

10-Aug-2006
11:51:42 AM

Blue lake was a place that could have had this potentialbut it disappeared with the breakup of Gondwana Land


Paulie

10-Aug-2006
12:13:01 PM

Feathertop and Buller also offer some good stuff for the beginner mtn-eer, certainly more than enough to practice glacier walking and self arresting etc. If there's a large enough cornice you may even be able to practice simulated crevasse rescue off deadman anchors, though I guess you can just do this on any cliff face (without the d/man anchors)...

Paul

NEVERCLIMBED32

10-Aug-2006
2:32:11 PM

Apart from what Jonrock said............
You might also want to think about where you want to climb. If you (and your mates) are cashed up you will be able to fly in to base and thus maximise the time you spend with the guide. The walk up the tasman is brutal as are the approach marches to access any number of other ranges.
Hut fees in Mt Cook park are also pretty expensive now if I remember correctly and in the peak season you may have to book ahead. ie:huts can be crowded. In the end you might end up paying to share a maori bunk with someone who snores like a chainsaw. Not the best preperation before a big day.
Some of the guiding companies will have back country food dumps so you get to eat well without having to carry too much extra weight in. Huts outside MCNP are also a bit cheaper.
If you are a competant skier and not going too late in the season you may want to consider this as an option also.
Nothing like sking off a big peak and back to the hut for dinner.

Check out http://www.sunrockice.com
I did a couple of courses years ago with Bill and would reconnmend him to anyone.

AntiPrincess

25-Aug-2006
6:43:28 PM

On 10/08/2006 Paulie wrote:
>Feathertop and Buller also offer some good stuff for the beginner mtn-eer,
>certainly more than enough to practice glacier walking and self arresting

Given that there are no crevasses on Feathertop, I'm a bit confused about how you practice glacier
walking there...


nmonteith

25-Aug-2006
7:01:48 PM

i think the word 'practice' (ie simulated) is the key!

JohnK

25-Aug-2006
8:29:27 PM

>Given that there are no crevasses on Feathertop, I'm a bit confused about
>how you practice glacier
>walking there...

Even in NZ, you first practice crevasse rescue hanging from an anchor inside a hut or a climbing wall or even off a bridge! It simply involves prussiking up the rope (if you fall in a crevasse) or escaping the system (if your partner falls in one). So you dont need an actual crevasse to practice this.

midnight

26-Aug-2006
6:16:30 PM

I got the chance to go trekking in the karakarum mountain ranges, and learnt alot about ice climbing, crevasse rescue and basic mountaineering in my days there. There is always several days of rest where you can pratise on an ice wall or rescue your waterbottle in a crevasse if you lug the equipment with you.

The trek to K2 base camp, walking along the Baltoro glacier and climbing Gondogora Pass is worthwhile learning experience. Your guide should know all ice climbing knowledge and can easily pass on the knowledge to you even though the gear is basic to our standards but hey I got to help out the Pakistani army in a rescue and they use the same basic gear.

I think NZ training would be definately advantageous but a good trek in the Himalayas will discover whether you have a great passion for climbing ice mountains.


manuinthewoods

27-Aug-2006
6:57:51 PM

I've done this course: http://www.templebasin.co.nz/htmls/9-day-multi.html
We were a group of 6 people who got organized together in Sydney. It was really good. The course was tailored to us and the instructor (John Corcoran) very knowledgable. He had a lot of experience.
He was also very flexible, we had poor weather so we decided to suspend the course for a few days. He was ok with that and got back home during that time. We just had to pay for his petrol... which is really nice!
The accomodation was excellent, pretty remote (you have to walk for 45' to get there, your gear takes the dodgy lift up). There's a great view, rooms are small but comfy and the group had a room to practice knots, pulleys and even a few anchors for doing things on ropes.
We didn't have time to ski much, but that was included in the price. The lifts are nutcrackers so one of the best part of skiing was watching one of my mates swearing at the lift while he tried to get on with a snowboard.
Hope you find the right course for you!


Paulie

28-Aug-2006
10:18:58 AM

On 25/08/2006 JohnK wrote:
>>Given that there are no crevasses on Feathertop, I'm a bit confused about
>>how you practice glacier
>>walking there...
>
>Even in NZ, you first practice crevasse rescue hanging from an anchor
>inside a hut or a climbing wall or even off a bridge! It simply involves
>prussiking up the rope (if you fall in a crevasse) or escaping the system
>(if your partner falls in one). So you dont need an actual crevasse to
>practice this.

Exactly my point - you don't need a crevasse to practice prussiking, hauling/pulley systems. You shouldn't even be out climbing in the mountains if you don't know how to use these systems so you must 1st practice them in a safer more predictable environment. The big difference between this type of simulation and real life practice is that during a good season on F/top a substantial cornice builds on which you are able to practice using dead man anchors in a simulated rescue scenario. Be bloody careful about the stability of the cornice(s) though - more than 1 person has fallen through one up there. Alternatively you could just find a steep rock wall in the snow and practice them that way.

Paulie

sliianna

13-Sep-2006
1:14:19 AM

did alpine ascents course with fox alpine guides- was excellent. 4:1 climber guide ratio, based at a high alpine hut- my partner was an ice climbing guide and the other 2 were rock climbers. guess it depends on what sort of mtns u want to climb (snow/ice vs mixed vs alpine rock) but the basics are impt for all types of climbing (crevasse/weather/avalanche/safety) and the best place to learn it IS in the environemt and then practise it on your hut bound days (which u surely will have in NZ!) in the hut.
theres nothing like hanging 25m down a real crevasse and prussiking out in a blizzard or holding a real fall and digging those T slots with your partners full weight on your harness...makes for some memorable moments!
good luck!

bren

20-Sep-2006
2:31:17 PM

Hey all,

I've signed on for the alpine guides TMC course on january 10th and am looking at doing some rock-climbing afterwards. Preferably biggish wall multi-pitch...I've heard sebastopole is big and bolted?

Anyone got any other ideas around that area that might be a go-er?

James

20-Sep-2006
2:39:32 PM

Sebastapol isn't very exciting (I think it was only bolted so AGL had somewhere convienent to take their clients...). Realisticall you will do most of the worthwhile climbs in a day. Also remember also Sebastapol is right in the village, so it cops all the same crap mountain weather that gives the area its 8 metres of annual precip.

the only other place I've rockclimbed in NZ is Wanaka, & that hardly counts as "big".

There are 27 messages in this topic.