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Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 4 of 6. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 102
Author
TR - Point Perp multipitch sport
One Day Hero
8/05/2013
2:45:02 PM
On 8/05/2013 The good Dr wrote:
>Of course if they start enacting their so called philosophies
>I would propose that they start with the compromised climbs established
>by close friends first and complete that task before spreading the actions
>wider. This will prove commitment to the cause and demonstrate that it
>is not just some perverse personality conflict or a course of action without
>significant personal ramifications.

What does that load of philosophicisation actually mean, doc? Give us a specific example.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/05/2013
2:47:39 PM
On 8/05/2013 james wrote:
>(snip)have you all just been suckered by Neil's cleverly crafted trolling session?

Neil is as Niel is!
In my opinion 'what you see/read is what you get', as Neil seems to me to adequately put his point of view forward.
~> Read that as, Neil is not trolling, if it doesn't make sense to you at first glance...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/05/2013
3:34:06 PM
Back on topic.

Apart from the debate it has sparked, I appreciated reading your Trip Report Neil. It really is a fantastic area and any climbing that gets done there is a joy to participate in. Full marks for getting out there and doing it, along with looking for new parts of it to climb, as well as posting to Chockstone about same to keep the rest of us surviving on the drip of reality...
pecheur
8/05/2013
3:39:44 PM
From the crag:
3. 35m (20) Carefully up the brittle undercut start then marhy up and slightly right through band after band of different rock types. This pitch is quite overhung but juggy most of the way.

Okay who can guess what the bit in bold is supposed to say? The other five typos weren't that obscure ...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/05/2013
3:46:52 PM
march

Macciza
8/05/2013
4:11:44 PM
manky ?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/05/2013
4:22:53 PM
On 8/05/2013 Macciza wrote:
>manky ?

You are forgetting that it is a sport climb...
;-)
Heh, heh, heh!
kieranl
Online Now
8/05/2013
4:34:20 PM
harden?

grantoss
8/05/2013
4:47:16 PM
On 8/05/2013 james wrote:
Or have you all just
>been suckered by Neil's cleverly crafted trolling session?

quite possibly!


IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/05/2013
4:52:58 PM
On 8/05/2013 grantoss wrote:
>On 8/05/2013 james wrote:
>Or have you all just
>>been suckered by Neil's cleverly crafted trolling session?
>
>quite possibly!
>
Trolling in a post on Chockstone is one thing.
Sportifying Point Perp is another, and the bolts having already been placed is no troll.
A provocative action/&post by nm? ~> quite possibly!!
One Day Hero
8/05/2013
5:37:32 PM
>On 8/05/2013 james wrote:
>Or have you all just
>>been suckered by Neil's cleverly crafted trolling session?

Nope, the route has clearly gone in, I have no reason to doubt that Neil bolted this one for the masses (he loves for people to climb his routes, and knows that half the climbers at Pt. Perp now don't own racks). The only doubtful bit is how much potential for good gear there is on the route, which could range from a lot to a bit, I'll be super surprised if there's none.
Wendy
8/05/2013
6:29:08 PM
On 6/05/2013 One Day Hero wrote:

>On the weekend I spent a lot of time brushing
>up a pair of mega classic granite cracks which had fallen into disrepair..........but
>apparently that isn't "contributing to sport" as much as bolting new choss.
>

So what have you cleaned up for me to do next time?

nmonteith
8/05/2013
7:52:23 PM
Sorry, I am in the Grampians now with no battery and almost no reception. Good luck with the arguing! I'm glad I keep you all entertained.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
8/05/2013
8:56:11 PM
On 8/05/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>Sorry, I am in the Grampians now with no battery and almost no reception.
>Good luck with the arguing! I'm glad I keep you all entertained.

... That sounds like a statement from someone who has targeted their audience.
;-)

Rocksinmyhead
9/05/2013
12:01:58 AM
On 8/05/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>Rocks
>
>One of my pet hates on CS is people who cut and paste the whole (or a
>large portion) of someone else's preceding message and then simply go through
>it and insert their own comments. Every one can see the previous messages
>on the thread. It shows a distinct lack of imagination, in my view.
>
>If you are genuinely and seriously asking me what is wrong with having
>dirty great lines of rings all over The Point, then maybe it's time for
>me to give up climbing.
>
>The Point is unusual and precious in having an abundance of natural lines.
>Icebird, Windjammer, Grey Mist, Face de Rat, Bushido, Hungry Eyes, Montezuma,
>Memorable Moves, Tenere, Jaws, The Deeps etc are (off the top of my head)
>all bolt-free trad lines. The original developers of The Point actually
>envisaged it as an entirely bolt-free area, a 'mixed' basis is actually
>a compromise.
>
>Is it too much to ask that sport climbers leave this area alone or work
>within the guidelines for bolting? If you want to go sport climbing isn't
>there enough for you in the whole of Nowra? Some people are grossly offended
>by lines of ring-bolts at a trad area and the dumbing down of the game
>to the lowest common denominator. Where have they got to go?
>
Okay, I'll leave your post in one piece to try and keep you happy, but I suspect I won't have much luck.

Nope, I'm not "genuinely and seriously" asking that - I asked why boycotting a ring bolted climb (in particular, this one, which even you said might be good) at the point motivates you, 'cause I could guess, but I would probably be wrong.

Also, why do you have the idea the point was ever envisaged as "bolt free"? Minimal bolts was the original request ( in the old interim guide) . It would have been more interesting and even scarier as a pure trad crag, but it didn't happen. It's not a trad crag, it's not a sports crag, it's a mixed bag with the most awesome atmosphere around, a mongrel that everyone loves. Telling people to only sports climb at Nowra is like telling people to not to clip the bolts if they want to trad climb - selfish, 'cause it's asking others to compromise to suit your own tastes.





Damo666
9/05/2013
10:17:35 AM
On 9/05/2013 Rocksinmyhead wrote:
>Telling people to only sports climb at Nowra is like telling people
>to not to clip the bolts if they want to trad climb - selfish, 'cause it's
>asking others to compromise to suit your own tastes.
>

Except one puts bits of steel all over the rock, and one leaves it alone, so it's a false equivalence.

These arguments are often presented as an impenetrable swirl of relative opinions with no fixed point of reference. But the state of the rock is that fixed point.

One leads to consumption of a resource. One leads to preservation of a resource. It's not just about us and our 'tastes' in leisure.

But theories aside, as we've seen the practical reality of it is that bolting creeps faster than restraint prevails. If some crags (i.e. Nowra) are accepted/established as heaps of bolts, OK fine, but if some crags (i.e. PP, Kaputar) are few bolts, or no bolts, then keep it that way.

Why must the change only be in the direction of more bolts? Can a traditionally mixed crag only go in one direction - *more* bolts? And when that crag is full, where to then? And then? Your admirable notion of selfishness seems to always be tipping one direction now.

Just to be clear, I'm not totally anti-bolts, I've clipped more than a few over the years, though I prefer all natural gear as I like the minimalism of it and bolts to me feel like cheating. But I'm not against long multipitch bolted sport routes up blank sections with no natural gear. Many of them are too hard for me anyway, but I'm fine with that. I'm not against the odd bolt here and there on a 'mixed' route, or in some cases bolts for anchors on popular routes. But these minimal, or crag-specific, methods are mutating out of character, enlarging and growing into other areas and encountering increasingly little restraint. Some of the bolting I see is excessive and ugly yet gets explained away with apathy. That is unjustifiable and unsustainable, whether we like it or not. Stuff like that can lead to the issue being taken out of our hands altogether. Then what?

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/armenian-basalt-columns-now-banned-for-climbing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Direction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toad

ajfclark
9/05/2013
10:33:51 AM
So as not to hijack this thread and make it easier to find later, I've just put the statement from the Armenians in its own thread.

Macciza
9/05/2013
1:19:55 PM
On 8/05/2013 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 8/05/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>>Sorry, I am in the Grampians now with no battery and almost no reception.
>>Good luck with the arguing! I'm glad I keep you all entertained.
>
>... That sounds like a statement from someone who has targeted their audience.
>;-)

I was a bit suspicious of that comment as well . . .

If he has 'no battery' then how does he know he has 'almost no reception' ? Even reversed there are still issues . . .

And as to us being 'entertained'? More like a case of 'Not necessarily amused . . " . . .
Nick Clow
9/05/2013
4:35:44 PM
Rocks

> why do you have the idea the point was ever envisaged as "bolt free"?

Because it was. It might be news to you, but the original persons who established routes (I hate the word 'developers') at The Point wanted it to be a no-bolts area. They went about the business of climbing routes (mostly ground up) with no bolts and they wanted it to stay that way.

As I said previously, I did a fair amount of climbing at the Point between 2000 and 2004 (before there was a guidebook, other than photocopied pages being passed around.) In retrospect I suppose I should be grateful for having experienced the place at that time.

I really, really cannot comprehend your comments about selfish trad climbers! Whatever dude, planet Thargon at 6 o'clock.

For the record, I am not anti-Neil (especially). I have done some of his routes only recently and several were good. Unfortunately, some others were, I feel, a big mistake.

The only thing that sport climbers are being asked to do is not place bolts next to natural placements. Good grief, is it that too much to askt?

Just going by the photo topo, I find it surprising that Neil can rap down that wall and not see a line of weakness, a natural line. Instead he sees the anti-lines and gets busy with his drill to 'create' sport climbs. It doesn't make sense to me, climbing has turned upside down. As someone once said (Royal Robbins?) sport climbing is the child that wants to eat its mother.




Miguel75
9/05/2013
5:08:18 PM
The answer is simple; people need to stop talking about it and start pulling bolts. Maybe compile a hit list (on a separate thread) of routes that need chopping and lets get to it:)

Maybe we could start the 'Uncle Chop Chop' endowment for the person who chops the most routes in a month:)

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There are 102 messages in this topic.

 

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