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Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 2 of 6. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 102
Author
TR - Point Perp multipitch sport

nmonteith
7/05/2013
10:34:25 AM
On 7/05/2013 Damo666 wrote:
>"I bolted this one for the other 10%..." - no Neil, you bolted it for
>you. I'm not anti bolts, but I am anti bullsh!t.

Err no - actually the total opposite. If I was just doing it for me I would have used a handful of mild steel carrots and preplaced a stack of sketchy trad. Why would I spend hundreds of $ on marine stainless steel if It was just for me?
gfdonc
7/05/2013
10:34:57 AM
On 7/05/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
> By definition also climbers who
>like 'adventure' and multi-pitch routes do not tend to want to follow a
>line of ring-bolts.

Don't agree. I like multipitch trad more than most. But I'm heading off to the Grose to clip bolts on the weekend, it will be multi-pitch, long and an adventure.
Oh, wait, you're right - they're U bolts not rings.
Damo666
7/05/2013
11:03:22 AM
On 7/05/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>On 7/05/2013 Damo666 wrote:
>>"I bolted this one for the other 10%..." - no Neil, you bolted it for
>>you. I'm not anti bolts, but I am anti bullsh!t.
>
>Err no - actually the total opposite. If I was just doing it for me I
>would have used a handful of mild steel carrots and preplaced a stack of
>sketchy trad. Why would I spend hundreds of $ on marine stainless steel
>if It was just for me?

Because that's still heaps cheaper than therapy? :-)

nmonteith
7/05/2013
11:07:24 AM
On 7/05/2013 Damo666 wrote:
>Because that's still heaps cheaper than therapy? :-)

Great name for a route - thanks!
One Day Hero
7/05/2013
11:52:53 AM
On 7/05/2013 BundyBear wrote:
>but chop Rick's bolts
>on a 16 ?? I dont understand?

You mean the 16 Rick retrobolted?

BundyBear
7/05/2013
11:57:34 AM
On 7/05/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 7/05/2013 BundyBear wrote:
>>but chop Rick's bolts
>>on a 16 ?? I dont understand?
>
>You mean the 16 Rick retrobolted?

Well not, retrobolted but bolted too close to the existing wob·bly museum route.. (I concede)

rocksinmyhead
7/05/2013
12:55:55 PM
On 7/05/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>>
>
>They may of course be good routes, but for the reasons that Neil finds
>it difficult to get partners to do multi-pitch sport, they will very seldom
>get done (especially as they are quite hard). By definition sport climbers
>like convenient single pitch climbing. By definition also climbers who
>like 'adventure' and multi-pitch routes do not tend to want to follow a
>line of ring-bolts.
>

Nick, you can define climbers however you like, but gdfonc's not alone in not fitting your perceptions - I love multipitch sport climbs! I also love multipitch trad climbs. I get more excited about spending a day climbing one long route than a heap of single pitch ones, bolted or trad. If I'm on a route near my limit (and that's feels pretty much like everything these days), there's enough uncertainty to keep things interesting (especially if Mark Wilson was involved in putting it up). Some of the bluie's multipitch sports routes have given me the best day's climbing I've ever had.

I also love Neil, Mikl, Mark and others for going out there and investing their time, money and energy to bolt these routes, for my enjoyment. If you're reading this, thanks.

As far as quality goes, they might not all be classics, but not all mixed or trad routes are either. How about you climb this one, and then if you think it's crap or would have gone better on gear, let us know.

Pete

uwhp510
7/05/2013
1:20:48 PM
On 7/05/2013 BundyBear wrote:
>Well not, retrobolted but bolted too close to the existing wob·bly museum
>route..

Yes, which is the same thing.
technogeekery
7/05/2013
1:40:14 PM
On 7/05/2013 rocksinmyhead wrote:
I love multipitch sport climbs! I also
>love multipitch trad climbs. I get more excited about spending a day climbing
>one long route than a heap of single pitch ones, bolted or trad. If I'm
>on a route near my limit (and that's feels pretty much like everything
>these days), there's enough uncertainty to keep things interesting (especially
>if Mark Wilson was involved in putting it up). Some of the bluie's multipitch
>sports routes have given me the best day's climbing I've ever had.
>
>I also love Neil, Mikl, Mark and others for going out there and investing
>their time, money and energy to bolt these routes, for my enjoyment. If
>you're reading this, thanks.

+1
Nick Clow
7/05/2013
2:36:49 PM
Rocks

Sorry, but that's a blythe, fluffy and condescending response. This, in particular, is a little bit sickening:

> I also love Neil, Mikl, Mark and others for going out there and investing their time, money and energy to bolt these routes, for my enjoyment. If you're reading this, thanks.

I don't even really understand your comments. What I actually said about Neil's routes is that they won't be repeated very often. Are you saying they will??

If I had been critical about these routes I would have mentioned the fact that it would seem to the casual observer that there is a promising-looking natural line staring out of Neil's topo, starting from the L of the picture at the flake, going up to the R, following the L of weakness up the R of the photo and finishing up the crack visible high up the climb. It’s (possibly) surprising that sport routes have been established over the top of it.

Anyway, aside from the complete fluffiness of your comment above, I do not have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with is Windjammer Wall being grid-bolted and other indiscriminate bolting taking place at the Point and elsewhere. The insight into Neil's mind above is quite disturbing and it's obvious that he has no control over his bolting habit.

Some checks are needed to ensure that (some of) the (remaining) character of Point Perp is retained and that he (and others) don't make similar mistakes to sticking a sport route up the middle of an already over-crowded, classic 'mixed' slabby wall (Sweet Dreams Wall).

I haven't been to the Point since 2010, but I climbed there extensively between 2000 and 2004. One of the nice things about it was that it was basically a trad area and you could go there and avoid too many people and too many bolts. I went quite a long time without clipping any bolts as the area is highly unusual in having so many wholly trad lines. The place shouldn't be turned into a gym and I would not be going to the Point to repeat a sport route, that's not why you go there.
One Day Hero
7/05/2013
3:30:38 PM
On 6/05/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>FYI, I did Rex Hunt last week (Alziehmers ascent) - talk about bolts next
>to trad placements! Guide says bring gear but every time I thought about
>placing something I realized there was a bolt within reach.

This is the argument which shits me the most. You're taking the existing example which shows the worst possible style, then using that as justification for doing your own routes in as bad a style as you feel like. Why not use Little Red Riding Hood, Bad Luck Streak or Destructive Wombats as your style guide? All excellent, safe routes with bolts placed only where needed.

What'll happen now is that everyone else bolting down there will extend that logic, look to your routes, and say "Monty is kind of traddy, and apparently it's ok for him to bolt next to gear placements, so we're going to do it too".

In other exciting news, my knee has recovered enough that activities like bolt removal and pissweak toproping are good to go. Probably heading down the Point on the w/e with toolkit in tow :D

Macciza
7/05/2013
3:55:38 PM
On 7/05/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>If I had been critical about these routes I would have mentioned the fact
>that it would seem to the casual observer that there is a promising-looking
>natural line staring out of Neil's topo, starting from the L of the picture
>at the flake, going up to the R, following the L of weakness up the R of
>the photo and finishing up the crack visible high up the climb. It’s (possibly)
>surprising that sport routes have been established over the top of it.

Yeah - it kinda sticks out doesn't it - just crying out to be climbed . . .
They probably did not notice it as the 'obvious' line because their rope-tissima was too far right . . .
Or maybe the climbing was too easy/not 'sport' like enough for their liking . . .
Or maybe they just wanted to fuch that line up for anyone else . . .
Or probably just too hard as trad for them, like at the other Point . . .


rocksinmyhead
7/05/2013
3:56:33 PM
On 7/05/2013 Nick Clow wrote:

>I don't even really understand your comments in the context of the thread.

um, your post suggested you didn't get who likes multipitch sports climbs. I do. I'm grateful to those who put them up, it's hard work.

>What I actually said about Neil's routes is that they won't be repeated
>very often. Are you saying they will??

Nope, got no idea, but I'm curious as to your zest for my answer.

>If I had been critical about these routes I would have mentioned the fact
>that it would seem to the casual observer that there is a promising-looking
>natural line staring out of Neil's topo, starting from the L of the picture
>at the flake, going up to the R, following the L of weakness up the R of
>the photo and finishing up the crack visible high up the climb. It’s possibly
>surprising that sport routes have been established over the top of it.

Okay, but you could have said so straight up, instead of mumbling about "quality". If you had, I would have thought maybe you had a point, but then if the line's was so promising as a mixed or trad route, why wasn't it climbed yet? Was anyone else keen on climbing it as such?
>
>Anyway, ignoring the complete fluffiness of your comment, I have no problem
>with it.

Geez, thanks!

>What I do have a problem with is Windjammer Wall being grid-bolted
>and other indiscriminate bolting taking place at the Point and elsewhere....
>
Okay, but then hassle Neil (or whoever's responsible) about this.

>Some checks are needed to ensure that (some of) the character of Point Perp is retained and that he (and others) doesn't make similar mistakes to sticking a sport route up the middle of an already over-crowded, classic 'mixed' slabby wall (Sweet Dreams Wall).

That's a fair point, but a poor example. Sweet Dreams is the most overated peice of crap I've ever had the misfortune to be dissappointed by.

>The place doesn’t need turning into a gym

Agreed! But by your own logic, adding a multiplitch sport route with abseil access isn't likely to do that.

>I would not be going to the Point to repeat a sport route, that's not why you go there.

That's your choice. But I would. Or for some of the awesome natural lines as well. Being able to choose between both is great. What do you get out of avoiding the sport routes?

Macciza
7/05/2013
3:58:27 PM
On 7/05/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>This is the argument which shits me the most. You're taking the existing
>example which shows the worst possible style, then using that as justification
>for doing your own routes in as bad a style as you feel like. . . . .
Absolutely agree here . . .

>What'll happen now is that everyone else bolting down there will extend
>that logic, look to your routes, and say "Monty is kind of traddy, and
>apparently it's ok for him to bolt next to gear placements, so we're going
>to do it too".

Monty already uses this argument for himself based on his previous work anyway . . .

>In other exciting news, my knee has recovered enough that activities like
>bolt removal and pissweak toproping are good to go. Probably heading down
>the Point on the w/e with toolkit in tow :D

Sounds good - we'll have to catch up sometime by the sounds of it . . .
Olbert
7/05/2013
7:52:42 PM
>That's a fair point, but a poor example. Sweet Dreams is the most overated
>peice of crap I've ever had the misfortune to be dissappointed by.

My girlfriend vehemently disagrees with you.

The conversation went like this:

Kate: For f*cks sake! Sweet Dreams is an awesome route.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Me: jeez Kate, settle down. No need for violence.

┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

rocksinmyhead
7/05/2013
8:12:31 PM
On 7/05/2013 Olbert wrote:
>
>Kate: For f*cks sake! Sweet Dreams is an awesome route.

Hexes at 10 paces then? I'll even let her have the #11 ;-)
james
8/05/2013
1:08:24 AM
>Yeah - it kinda sticks out doesn't it - just crying out to be climbed

If this amazing trad line is so fking obvious then why hasn't anyone else climbed & written it up? Too busy with inane whinging on the 'net?

The good Dr
8/05/2013
9:02:27 AM
On 8/05/2013 james wrote:
>>Yeah - it kinda sticks out doesn't it - just crying out to be climbed
>
>If this amazing trad line is so fking obvious then why hasn't anyone else
>climbed & written it up? Too busy with inane whinging on the 'net?
>
Nick Clow
8/05/2013
11:56:34 AM
Rocks

One of my pet hates on CS is people who cut and paste the whole (or a large portion) of someone else's preceding message and then simply go through it and insert their own comments. Every one can see the previous messages on the thread. It shows a distinct lack of imagination, in my view.

If you are genuinely and seriously asking me what is wrong with having dirty great lines of rings all over The Point, then maybe it's time for me to give up climbing.

The Point is unusual and precious in having an abundance of natural lines. Icebird, Windjammer, Grey Mist, Face de Rat, Bushido, Hungry Eyes, Montezuma, Memorable Moves, Tenere, Jaws, The Deeps etc are (off the top of my head) all bolt-free trad lines. The original developers of The Point actually envisaged it as an entirely bolt-free area, a 'mixed' basis is actually a compromise.

Is it too much to ask that sport climbers leave this area alone or work within the guidelines for bolting? If you want to go sport climbing isn't there enough for you in the whole of Nowra? Some people are grossly offended by lines of ring-bolts at a trad area and the dumbing down of the game to the lowest common denominator. Where have they got to go?





hangdog
8/05/2013
12:35:45 PM
On 8/05/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>Rocks
>
>One of my pet hates on CS is people who cut and paste the whole (or a
>large portion) of someone else's preceding message and then simply go through
>it and insert their own comments. Every one can see the previous messages
>on the thread. It shows a distinct lack of imagination, in my view.

Not everyone reads all the previous messages so inserting comments so that the comment or reply can relate to the relevant comment.
>
>If you are genuinely and seriously asking me what is wrong with having
>dirty great lines of rings all over The Point, then maybe it's time for
>me to give up climbing.

Well. That is always an option but it would be a shame to give up climbing because of some bolted lines. Maybe put up some more trad routes to balance the vast numbers of bolted routes that apparently exist there.
>
>The Point is unusual and precious in having an abundance of natural lines.
>Icebird, Windjammer, Grey Mist, Face de Rat, Bushido, Hungry Eyes, Montezuma,
>Memorable Moves, Tenere, Jaws, The Deeps etc are (off the top of my head)
>all bolt-free trad lines. The original developers of The Point actually
>envisaged it as an entirely bolt-free area, a 'mixed' basis is actually
>a compromise.
The original developers have no more right to the crag than anyone else. What they had in mind was grabbing some great trad routes and they certainly have an "ownership" of those routes. But they have no more right than anyone to decide what else happens in other areas.
>
>Is it too much to ask that sport climbers leave this area alone or work
>within the guidelines for bolting? If you want to go sport climbing isn't
>there enough for you in the whole of Nowra? Some people are grossly offended
>by lines of ring-bolts at a trad area and the dumbing down of the game
>to the lowest common denominator. Where have they got to go?

Who decided that it was a trad area?? It can be trad line line but if the line doesn't support trad then it is bolted. My answer again is if you don't like it then go develop new trad routes. Apparently there a dozens of them just waiting for you. Or climb these bolted routes and place gear. You know who will jump into this now !!
>
>
>
>
>

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