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Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 67
Author
TR - Thumbs Out

Macciza
12/04/2013
6:31:54 PM
High All,

Whilst most will interpret the TR as 'Trip Report' in this instance it might equally be meaning 'Travesty Report' or 'Tragedy Report' . . .

First a little background reading see http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?ForumID=6&Action=Display&MessageID=21221&Replies=28#NewPost
And if you happen to have access to Matt Brooks facelessbook page you can check out some more recent commentary there, though I have not been able to respond to any of the accusations, insults or assorted crap, from assorted persons involved including Bundy and Monty and others (including the suggestion that a totally unrelated aid climb of mine should have it's minimal amount of gear chopped!!) being raised there unfortunately, and a few supporters of my side like Rowan, Zac and Damo countering on my behalf. I have not been able to comment though I hope to be able to soon, if Matt responds to my 'Friend' request . . .

Basically - a line I have been trying on natural protection, that is listed online at both The ACA and TheCrag as a project, has recently been ring-bolted, and very badly at that (They probably should read Mikl's Softc--k Bolting Guide before doing any more), and is now being 'claimed' as a 'new' project by Jason Lammers (Bundy) as a presumably closed-project as sport-bolters tend to do . . . Fortunately, 'TradOminous' was able to notify me and take some positive action to 'decommission' the ringbolts temporarily (see recent post re this) before a more permanent solution can be implemented. Anyway it seems the (ir)responsible party now knows and have decided to slander me on Facebook due to me being unable to respond there, hence my post here . . .

So, back to the route - I initially attempted it 'ground up' with no prior inspection about a year ago (see Chockstone thread quoted above), and in similar style on another few occasions before lowering my (ethical) standards and doing some minor toprope inspection to see if the route to that point was possible, whether the possible gear was 'acceptable' and whether the next section would be climbable, which was an unknown. Although on that occasion I could not obtain suitable pro I did the moves fairly easily and it became apparent that the route to that point was in fact doable and that even if suitable gear could not be found that it still might be within my realm of 'acceptable danger'. In fact at that point I was quite pleased that it did seem to be a borderline 'safe/dangerous' route that would present a substantial mental challenge. I got on the route another few times from the ground but was still somewhat intimidated by it, but decided against anymore top-rope inspection, though I did sort protection possibilities out a bit better via some solo aid inspection and standard trad cleaning as I had not really done so previously.

So, to the present - as mentioned in my recent (Not so) Sweet Dreams TR, I discovered that some lesser principled individual or group had decided to ringbolt, chalk, tick mark, top-rope/dog the line in order to reduce the naturally presented challenge down to there meagre standards. And if you have read that TR you will know that I was extremely pissed off by that. And that at stage I could only conclude that it must have been some unrelated party who had done so, as I could not believe that any of the people who knew the history of my attempts would take such action without getting in contact with me to discuss the matter or at least simply tell me that they intended to do so - obviously, in hindsight, that faith in them was very badly placed . . .

Anyway this led me to get back down to try the climb the other week and I managed to lead up to the roof placing all gear on lead, and protected by a weird #6 DMM Dragon (BD #4) at the top of the corner (with a BD 2TCU a bit below that) and a weirdly placed shallow small offset cam (somewhat flared placement) and RP in the roof, I launched out around the roof feeling pretty positive, as I had done the next moves fairly easily before and figured they would come back to me even though I could not quite recall what I had done. I was feeling in a pretty good state of mind, confident and relaxed, not too concerned about what 'might' happen and trusting that all would be good regardless - but it wasn't to be. Despite all my positivity and mental fortitude I was denied on the next move and ended up falling - the RP ripped, (and disappeared) but the shallow cam amazingly held so all was good, and somewhat simultaneously relieved and disappointed, I lowered to the ground. I pulled the rope and had a few more shots, falling a few times on each shot, probably a dozen or so times all up, trying a variety of sequences on each attempt but to no avail. The cam held every time despite it being one of those placements that had previously seemed to either simply fall out when placing it or fall out with a bit of testing, but occasionally seem to hold ok, or at least hold body weight. So clearly the bottom part of the route that goes through the roof and onto the headwall is protectable with natural gear, and once on the headwall there is absolutely bomber gear that will allow further exploration up the rest of the climb, which I will probably continue to attempt ground-up until I get shut down - although given the situation I may decide to take the somewhat lesser option of rapping in to inspect potential gear placements and line possibilities up higher. I am hopefully confident that there will be some possible protection up there, but will make that decision as it arises. At the most it may require a bolt or two up high to keep it sane as a mixed climb, but no bolts are required for the first half of the route.

So there you have it - a quick summation from my side about this controversy and a commitment to continue pursuing the line as originally intended, and with decisions still to be made regarding removal of the unwarranted retro-bolts . . .
Cheers
MM

Bundybear
13/04/2013
4:12:47 PM
What a crock of crap !! Mate, we saw you trying to siege it on TOP ROPE by threading the anchors on the route immediately next to it. Mr TRAD ethics ??

Sounds like you have the grade 18 moves sorted up to the roof at 4m. Great stuff !! Where does your trad mega route go after that ??

dalai
13/04/2013
10:00:58 PM
Guys - It is an emotive issue, but I request everyone please keep the discussions civil. Otherwise I'll start locking threads and giving people two week rests from posting...


sbm
14/04/2013
7:03:22 PM
Is everyone also sure this route wasn't put up on aid by Ewbank & co first, like Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down?

nmonteith
14/04/2013
9:45:03 PM
On 14/04/2013 sbm wrote:
>Is everyone also sure this route wasn't put up on aid by Ewbank & co first,
>like Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down?

There is no crack after the first 9m. Repeat - no crack. Just a face - with ringbolts.
Nick Clow
15/04/2013
9:16:37 AM
> There is no crack after the first 9m. Repeat - no crack. Just a face - with ringbolts.

That's pretty disingenuous, Neil. Having walked past this myself, I would have said that the crack disappears at the roof at more like 12 metres up.

'9 metres' seems an understatement to me and, in any case, is no kind of justification for putting bolts next to a crack.

I would like to know who bolted it. Who felt vindictive enough to go and do that?
Nick Clow
15/04/2013
10:01:09 AM
> You may be surprised that having climbed the route on several occasions I actually do know how high that section of cliff is. It's certainly not 12m.

Ok, so I say 12 metres, Bundy says 4 metres higher up and you say 9 metres. Interesting. Would 2 people who have been involved with bolting it try and understate how long it is?

> And by 'crack' i presume you mean fused corner.

By 'crack' I mean crack. The worthless, chossy, $hitty steep crack that only an idiot(s) would think is worth climbing (on gear or otherwise). The thing had bits of gear hanging out of it, so it's not 'fused' is it.

> The person who was planning to bolt well before it was 'claimed' as a project by Macca. See above.

?? What does that mean? Who?

Miguel75
15/04/2013
10:09:04 AM
This climb sounds intriguing:)

On 13/04/2013 Bundybear wrote:
>Sounds like you have the grade 18 moves sorted up to the roof at 4m.

On 14/04/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>There is no crack after the first 9m. Repeat - no crack. Just a face -
>with ringbolts.

On 15/04/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>Having walked past this myself, I would
>have said that the crack disappears at the roof at more like 12 metres
>up.

Nick Clow
15/04/2013
10:25:38 AM
> This climb sounds intriguing:)

Indeed.

If you are observant you might notice the perhaps subtle backtracking in Neil's initial position to:

> 'It's certainly not 12m'.


nmonteith
15/04/2013
10:29:19 AM
On 15/04/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>> You may be surprised that having climbed the route on several occasions
>I actually do know how high that section of cliff is. It's certainly not
>12m.
>
>Ok, so I say 12 metres, Bundy says 4 metres higher up and you say 9
>metres. Interesting. Would 2 people who have been involved with bolting
>it try and understate how long it is?

It's 5m up to the first roofleft (Macca highpoint), then another 3m above that to the major horizontal break that crosses the entire cliff (about a 3rd of the way up the 18m cliff)

>> And by 'crack' i presume you mean fused corner.
>
>By 'crack' I mean crack. The worthless, chossy, $hitty steep crack that
>only an idiot(s) would think is worth climbing (on gear or otherwise).
>The thing had bits of gear hanging out of it, so it's not 'fused' is it.

At least we kind of agree on something! It was certainly the least inspiring line at the cliff for me. What I was trying to point out is that it isn't a splitter handjam crack or anything - its a fused, broken chossy crack. Yes, you can get trad gear in it - but it is specialized and tricky to place. You could get similar trad in almost any sport route int he Bluies.
Nick Clow
15/04/2013
10:41:45 AM
> You could get similar trad in almost any sport route int he Bluies.

Neil, I'm sorry but that statement simply does not stack up for me.

Are you going to say who bolted it or not?

Sabu
15/04/2013
10:44:46 AM
On 15/04/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>> This climb sounds intriguing:)
>
>Indeed.
>
>If you are observant you might notice the perhaps subtle backtracking
>in Neil's initial position to:
>
>> 'It's certainly not 12m'.

Why is there such interest in the exact height of this climb or section of a climb? It just reads like a lame attempt to discredit people...

rodw
15/04/2013
10:45:53 AM
Read macca's first post he clearly says who bolted it

..now back to the slanging match (grabs bag of popcorn.)

Miguel75
15/04/2013
10:45:55 AM
On 15/04/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>On 15/04/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>>I would like to know who bolted it. Who felt vindictive enough to go
>and
>>do that?
>
>The person who was planning to bolt well before it was 'claimed' as a
>project by Macca. See above.

From this thread; http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?ForumID=6&Action=Display&MessageID=21221&Replies=28#NewPost

On 8/03/2012 BundyBear wrote:
...SNIP...
>Send it this weekend, I am away at the new secret southern highlands crag
>- but was planning on bolting it the weekend after. Get busy !!

Miguel75
15/04/2013
10:47:24 AM
On 15/04/2013 nmonteith wrote:
...SNIP..
>It's 5m up to the first roofleft (Macca highpoint), then another 3m above
>that to the major horizontal break that crosses the entire cliff (about
>a 3rd of the way up the 18m cliff)

Thanks Neil.

Macciza
15/04/2013
10:55:02 AM
Hi
Not sure of the measurements but the climbing up to, through the roof and to the bomber gear in a small corner/crack (before little rootlet) and stance had all been done, on trad, before the thing got bolted. The people who did it Jason Lammers et al. knew that I was attempting it and would have been able to contact me to discuss the matter. They didn't, they bolted.

For me, the start is an obvious climbing challenge - which is why Julien and I attempted it from the ground the first time we got there as it appeared untouched. It has bomber gear and easy climbing up to a weird gear arrngement in the roof that protects a harder move to get established on the headwall. This is the point at which I am falling in the above TR. I have climbed though the roof, have the jug around the lip and am going for the big rail, which allows me to then get established on the headwall, and plug in some bomber gear. From there I had briefly tried going up on one occasion but had not tried any other options really, was hoping to do it all on the sharp end. Anyway I guess it traverses right and goes up through the obvious weakness that looks like it should have some gear possibilities.

My only 'claim' to the line has been that it is protectable with gear - something which I have proven. I never 'claimed' it as a closed project, simply a non-boltable project.
Jason Lammers is 'claiming' it as his closed project but it seems likely that others also are co-conspirators in the act. They are named as parties in the ring bolting of another route nearby which I had started cleaning up. It is clearly a crack for 80% of the climb - yet now is a 'ringbolted sport climb'.

Hmm better post I'm missing all the one-liners by makning coffee and giving a considered opinion . . .
Nick Clow
15/04/2013
10:56:10 AM
> Read macca's first post he clearly says who bolted it

Sorry, my mistake, thanks for that. I find Macciza's posts completely indigestible so I must have skimmed over that.

Ok, so we've gone off and bolted the crack start of a ($hit) route. That was being attempted by someone else on trad gear. That same person, who has a lot (too much) to say about ethics and bolting (albeit often in a Quixotic manner) and has been banned from Neil's Safer Cliff forum.

Vindictive?






Macciza
15/04/2013
11:03:25 AM
So basically it boils down to the fact that they are unable to climb it in the style that I am approaching it (~23 trad) and have added artificial aids / ringbolted it to bring it down to their level . . .

Yep it all seems pretty much vindictive to me, but I hope to be be vindicated in the end, by climbing the route as trad . .
kp
15/04/2013
11:22:39 AM
Macca, you have stated that you may need to add artificial aids aka bolts to the top half yourself? I feel it is easy to take the high moral ground, essentially piss on the line, but not do the ground work to work out where/if it goes on trad?? if it does go on trad, then rip bundys bolts out and climb it now!# harping on the internet does nothing
drdeviousii
15/04/2013
11:25:25 AM
Are you all really arguing about a 18m high bit of obscure Bluies choss? Lay off the green macca, paranoia isn't cool.

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There are 67 messages in this topic.

 

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