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The chopping of Prow Prowess - TR

Olbert

11/01/2013
5:59:01 PM

So after a loooooooong (read multi-thousand word) discussion on the Wollongong Climbing Group on Facebook there was a general consensus (as much as possible) that this route should be chopped.

The main reason for chopping was because it was above the Dave Walsh walking track on Mt Keira and I believe that the NPWS who manage the area would not appreciate these new bolts. I feel it is better for climbers to be self managing rather than managed.

I had hoped to get in and chop the bolts before anybody from NPWS noticed them but unfortunately I took three months from noticing this route existed to getting off my fat ass and in that time the NPWS have been out doing track work underneath the route.

This is the first time I have actually gone out there and altered the rock in any way – I have never bolted or chopped before. So I got a little advice, tools and epoxy from a friend (thanks G).

This photo was taken standing on the track with my phone – in the flesh the bolts are unmissable.

A big ass hammer – needed to break the bond between the glue and the rock. A few solid hits is all it takes.

A big ass wrench – needed to unscrew the bolts (these ones had proper thread like a normal bolt so they just twisted right out).

The bolts – not a bad days work.

Epoxy – to cover up the holes and make it all look nice again.

My bag of specially found dirt – to make sure it is a truly local solution.

Smearing on the epoxy – here’s to hoping I won’t glue my fingers together.

There are two anchor holes, one completely finished and one that has yet to have the dirt applied – can you see them both?

Bolt hole with damage.

Now with smeared epoxy.

Finished product.

View from the track now – nothing left.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

11/01/2013
8:30:29 PM

On 11/01/2013 Olbert wrote:
>View from the track now – nothing left.

Good work Olly.
From the photos posted, the route still looks do-able in trad style...


climbau

11/01/2013
10:09:48 PM

Nice job Olbert. Looks good, and well done on self management by concensus.

One day Hero

12/01/2013
12:59:14 AM

Nice one Oli. So, how many other bolts did this Terry douch place? I've been thinking of going on a little chopping tour seeing as it's too hot to climb.

btw, what the fuch is the deal with supermod banning me for very mildly abusing a retard who desperately needed it?

[Moderator edit:
On the other thread where your time-out arose, I wrote;
>ODH knew he was on short notice due previous warning, but chose to test our limits (again).

It is simple really. On Chockstone, (as per policy), when you criticise an issue instead of the person presenting it, you won't get time-out.

We have had this conversation before.
The warnings you have received from Moderators about time-out are ongoing, as we have better things to do with our time than re-issue warnings for every offence.]


Sonic

12/01/2013
8:21:08 AM

Damo, if you can name the route at Kiera, its been retroed or (poorly) rebolted. I got banned from the Wollongong Climbing Community group for critisising too much - speaking out about things like remarking routes with bright blue paint, retrobolting trad lines and calling them new routes and even the fact an FA gets naming rights, not the equipper.

To me, these are all standard climbing ethics violations and the response I always got was 'Wheres it written down, wheres the proof?' Its all a bit crazy to me!

Olbert

12/01/2013
9:08:41 AM

Oh shit - i was so carried away with my chopping that I didn't cover up the bright blue 'PP' at the base.

Other things that pissed me off that I haven't bothered to do anything about (on top of Sonic's list) placing lower offs on routes with perfectly fine stainless glue in carrots for top belaying on a bunch of the West routes; and removing the top belay carrots (again perfectly fine) at the top of one or two of the short south face top rope routes and not replacing them.

Less to do with the climbing and more to do with Terry himself, he has retro/rebolted a bunch of routes that did need it and yet because of his other actions and in very large part because of his attitude he has pissed off basically the entire Wollongong climbing community.

Edit: I have been informed the top belay carrots on the west face have not been removed. The east face top rope carrots have, however, and on one of the routes not replaced with rings. The post has been modified to reflect this.


OldestBumbly

12/01/2013
10:08:25 AM

Thank You! Great to see someone getting out there and making a stand for a crag that holds some historical significance for climbing on the South Coast and which was the learning ground for some of the leading climbers of the day.
Not sure how one can put a stop to the "new" route activity particularly on the West and South faces. The reality is virtually every inch of anything worthwhile under 25 has been climbed on. Anybody claiming a firsct ascent is deluded as to the uniqueness or worthiness of the climb. Unfortunately this is further compounded on The Crag website with new routes being claimed over what were existing routes. My attempts to correct this were met with abuse.

I was there a few weeks ago and carrots were still in place. A lot of these pre-date the recent rebolting and some go back to what was one of the first outdoor climbing comps held in the country held in the late 80s early 90s. Lower offs would be good on some routes but in some cases (eg.Short Legs) they can cut short the best part of the route.

Damo666

12/01/2013
10:31:13 AM

One Day Hero

12/01/2013
12:33:55 PM

On 12/01/2013 Sonic wrote:
>To me, these are all standard climbing ethics violations and the response
>I always got was 'Wheres it written down, wheres the proof?' Its all a
>bit crazy to me!

Would you guys be interested in another climbing comp at Kiera? We could have a nominated time period, and the winner is whoever brings back the highest number of Terry's retrobolts/bullshit non-route bolts.


Sonic

12/01/2013
1:32:59 PM

On 12/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:

>Would you guys be interested in another climbing comp at Kiera? We could
>have a nominated time period, and the winner is whoever brings back the
>highest number of Terry's retrobolts/bullshit non-route bolts.

Sounds good to me! I reckon half of Wollongong will show up!


OldestBumbly

12/01/2013
1:43:31 PM

Sounds good except (as hard as it is to say) some of the bolting has been good. At least one spin-off of the chopping has shown that they are fairly solid - at one point I was concerned bolting techniques may have been taught at the same ethics classes.


E. Wells

12/01/2013
6:34:46 PM

I liked it better with rings. Nice 316 grade, clean glue job. Good one Terry. The name Terry reminds me of Club Keno in the RSL. Im not sure why. Anyhow, well done to all. I think that Olberts next purchase from the hardware removing store should be a good pair of rubber gloves, that grey stuff no good for the skin....


Miguel75

12/01/2013
8:02:04 PM

It's easy being an armchair (or Chockstone) quarterback; 'tis much harder to put your money where your mouth is. Great work Oli.


pmonks

13/01/2013
3:38:52 AM

Is Terry's middle name "Tough", by any chance?

Batey

14/01/2013
9:37:30 AM

On 12/01/2013 OldestBumbly wrote:
>Thank You! Great to see someone getting out there and making a stand for
>a crag that holds some historical significance for climbing on the South
>Coast and which was the learning ground for some of the leading climbers
>of the day.
>Not sure how one can put a stop to the "new" route activity particularly
>on the West and South faces. The reality is virtually every inch of anything
>worthwhile under 25 has been climbed on. Anybody claiming a firsct ascent
>is deluded as to the uniqueness or worthiness of the climb. Unfortunately
>this is further compounded on The Crag website with new routes being claimed
>over what were existing routes. My attempts to correct this were met with
>abuse.
>
>I was there a few weeks ago and carrots were still in place. A lot of
>these pre-date the recent rebolting and some go back to what was one of
>the first outdoor climbing comps held in the country held in the late 80s
>early 90s. Lower offs would be good on some routes but in some cases (eg.Short
>Legs) they can cut short the best part of the route.

I spent a lot of time climbing there in the 90s when i was a young lad. My dad learnt to climb there many years befor that. When i started climbing again 2 years ago we were shokeced at all the new bolts. Also shocked to see new routes running up old routes that were Bold. Kinda took away from what i remeber of the place to the point i don't enjoy climbing there with all the poorly retro routes.

I think the biggest shock was seeing all the rings on gumtree wall that was once a single carrot if i remember correctly?

You only have to get an old guide out to see what has been climbed before and like you said every inch of rock has ben climbed there basically at some point and in the old days before stainless, a drill and glue.

I raised another point a few months ago about some rings being to tight. I believe they were replaced but would have rather the bolts on that route be removed completly (it was pone of the brigetta climbs that was bolted then renamed to some sport crap).

Anyway its a shame to see that the retro bolting is still going on there.

Batey

14/01/2013
9:54:04 AM

On 12/01/2013 Sonic wrote:
>Damo, if you can name the route at Kiera, its been retroed or (poorly)
>rebolted. I got banned from the Wollongong Climbing Community group for
>critisising too much - speaking out about things like remarking routes
>with bright blue paint, retrobolting trad lines and calling them new routes
>and even the fact an FA gets naming rights, not the equipper.
>
>To me, these are all standard climbing ethics violations and the response
>I always got was 'Wheres it written down, wheres the proof?' Its all a
>bit crazy to me!

The bright blue paint is hidious!!

Also as mentioned above about lower offs onsome west face routes. Whats the need when there is perfectly good top belays and a safe walk off? Is it just so people can dash up in the afternoon and do a few "quick laps".

I find the whole crag rather dissapointing and im only a young new climber. I would hate to think what the guys who "made" this place what it is think about it all.

Olbert

14/01/2013
10:22:20 AM

Re the blue letters - I'm considering going back and covering the blue letters with epoxy as well as filling in some chips that have appeared on new routes and at least one old route which hadn't been forgotten about.

Batey

14/01/2013
11:21:02 AM

On 14/01/2013 Olbert wrote:
>Re the blue letters - I'm considering going back and covering the blue
>letters with epoxy as well as filling in some chips that have appeared
>on new routes and at least one old route which hadn't been forgotten about.

Yeh i don't see why it is nessacary. there are so many recognisable climbs there that reading a guide is easy to work out. Don't know why they need to be 4 inch tall leters either. Im curious as to what routes have been "enhanced"?

I jsut read through the guide on the crag. Seems to be a few of these rebolts have had bolts added. Brigetta, Crawdad? Was there not enough protection in the past 30 years or something?


lionelterray

14/01/2013
11:38:19 AM

Facts :

- ALL planned and intended changes to MTK were posted on a FB forum WCC(old name) - on a daily/weekly basis for over one year in 2012 - people in this thread (and 55 others) had 'ample' opportunity to make comments at anytime. The few comments made were acted upon.

- advice was sought and obtained from the original crag developers (Ant Prehn , Graeme HIll , etal)

- the Prow Prowess route was notified to WCC(old name) and to over 300 Hangdog forum members in July 2012, and climbed/seen by at least a dozen climbers. Any issue with it was instigated by OLBERT for his own unilateral purposes

- Gumtree wall was ring bolted over 10 years ago

- Any 'new' routes ARE NOT covered in any of the old guides (although, 1 is in vague dispute)

- SONIC (gavin) was never banned from WCC (old name) forum . After repeated requests for assistance from Sonic for help (FB msgs can be produced) , Sonic in a fit of peak individually FB banned the WCC admin. As the WCC admin could no longer see SONICS posts in WCC (a bug/issue in FB) he had to be temporarily removed from the forum)

- the placing of lower offs was originally mandated by dave hoyle and paul ratenbury (their FB msgs can be produced - 1 specifically requesting low LOs on Short Legs)

- blue lettering is simply paint, it can be easily rubbed off - the original crag developers carved into the rock the route initials.. paint is far less destructive.

I have found these related thread comments neither accurate or helpful and blatantly vindictive , I shall not bother reading related chockstone threads again.
- so, please don't bother replying to me on this... i have stated facts not opinions, they are not in dispute

Batey

14/01/2013
11:53:36 AM

On 14/01/2013 lionelterray wrote:
>Facts :
>
>- ALL planned and intended changes to MTK were posted on a FB forum WCC(old
>name) - on a daily/weekly basis for over one year in 2012 - people in this
>thread (and 55 others) had 'ample' opportunity to make comments at anytime.
>The few comments made were acted upon.
>
>- advice was sought and obtained from the original crag developers (Ant
> Prehn , Graeme HIll , etal)
>
>- the Prow Prowess route was notified to WCC(old name) and to over 300
>Hangdog forum members in July 2012, and climbed/seen by at least a dozen
>climbers. Any issue with it was instigated by OLBERT for his own unilateral
>purposes
>
>- Gumtree wall was ring bolted over 10 years ago
>
>- Any 'new' routes ARE NOT covered in any of the old guides (although,
>1 is in vague dispute)
>
>- SONIC (gavin) was never banned from WCC (old name) forum . After repeated
>requests for assistance from Sonic for help (FB msgs can be produced)
>, Sonic in a fit of peak individually FB banned the WCC admin. As the
>WCC admin could no longer see SONICS posts in WCC (a bug/issue in FB)
>he had to be temporarily removed from the forum)
>
>- the placing of lower offs was originally mandated by dave hoyle and
>paul ratenbury (their FB msgs can be produced - 1 specifically requesting
>low LOs on Short Legs)
>
>- blue lettering is simply paint, it can be easily rubbed off - the original
>crag developers carved into the rock the route initials.. paint is far
>less destructive.
>
>I have found these related thread comments neither accurate or helpful
>and blatantly vindictive , I shall not bother reading related chockstone
>threads again.
>- so, please don't bother replying to me on this... i have stated facts
>not opinions, they are not in dispute
>

Thanks for the facts.
I was mearly trying to generate discussion to understand what is happening. More out of curiosity and didn't want to ofend you in any way. Saying the discussion is neither accurate or helpful and blatantly vindictive doesn't help anyone.

Im sure many people who use Mt keira have no idea about said FB forrum WCC. And im sure if people knew of this discussion more comments would have been made. Also not everyone climbs at hangdog and im sure that the said 300 hangdog forum members are possibly not climbers using mt keira. Using that as justification seems "neither accurate or helpful ".

My appologies for not understanding and asking why things were changing. Providing justification as you have is great but the tone it wich its done doesnt help anyone either but seems to go along with the usual chocky charm we have.

There are 65 messages in this topic.