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Aiding Inquisition at Araps


evanbb

30-Jun-2008
1:46:11 PM

On 30/06/2008 gfdonc wrote:
>The sewing is easy; the titanium metalworking
>might be a bit of a struggle.
>

Working with Ti is easy, once you get it hot enough.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Jun-2008
2:36:19 PM

On 30/06/2008 evanbb wrote:
>Working with Ti is easy, once you get it hot enough.

~> not sure she would appreciate that comment since she started the thread...

Heh, heh, heh.

Re
>rockclimbing.com aid climbing forum has some info on how to make Russians
>at home. Google search it and I am sure you should find the info you need.

gfdonc wrote;
>I think I've seen that. The sewing is easy; the titanium metalworking might be a bit of a struggle.

Link to Rockclimbing.com photos of home made RA's

'moof' appears to have used a standard hook on his latest version ...

Also noted from that thread that Fish products (by Russ Walling), could be a source for RA's?

I am strongly tempted to now try some experimentation with the concept myself ...


Phil Box

30-Jun-2008
4:22:36 PM

On 30/06/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I am strongly tempted to now try some experimentation with the concept
>myself ...

In that case you should set the hook height to just below the knee. The hooks are attached to the cuff around about where they would lie to just inside the inside leg part of the knee. More or less right at the top of the shin bone, you know the big flat bit before it flares out to the knee.

The stirrups are also adjustable as is the cuff. The cuff is quite padded.

As for the Pika adjustable daiseys, I have those as well and I reckon they are on the light side so don't pursue that avenue, the Yates are da bomb. Great for hooking into overhanging walls when you are new routing too. ;))


sliamese

30-Jun-2008
10:10:22 PM

>sliamese wrote;
>>in terms of belaying i just use a gri-gri. i dont modify mine because
>theres no need,
>
>OK now I'm curious and find this concept interesting, although I don't
>use a gri gri myself.
>
>Why do you think that many before you who reckoned it a good idea to modify
>a gri gri for soloing, are now perhaps wrong?
>
>:)

now im probably wrong, but this is what i think...

having soloed with a soloist (the wren industies one) i found the chest harness to be restrictive and uncomfortable. the harness i had wasnt really padded which didnt help! however when i got to yosemite i was forced to use just a gri gri because thats all i had. i soon became fond of it!! i talked to a few others who have modified theirs and they told me it still didnt feed smoothly and it sometimes had to be hand fed. having realised murphy's law that the gri gri will only grab the mili-second after you commit to the dodgy piece, i found comfort in being able to franticly grab for the device to get some slack. also i found it much easier on pitches with pendulems and tension traverses to have it running normally so i can lower and raise easily. i still wore a bandolier, but its nice to be able to leave that at the belay when you clean/haul.

basically i think its a personal preferance thing, i can see how on steep terrain(roofs) having the longer fifi thru the harness would be way easier. im pretty happy how a normal grigri works and catches falls (onto #2 RP's!!) tho, so i wont be modifying mine any time soon!

im told pika make some very funky hooks! cam hooks that are shaped a bit like angles to fit in pin scars like a dream! while im on cam hooks how rad are they!! thats my biggest advice to newcomers, get a set from an online shop and go practice! they are shit-scary to start with but once you have them down they rock, especically inverted hooks(they earn mega fun-points!).


IdratherbeclimbingM9

1-Jul-2008
8:34:55 AM

Thanks for the feedback Phil B & sliamese.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

20-Jul-2008
4:49:40 PM

It is good to hear the ti adventures continue.

>So my question is, when cleaning a route (particularly if it's overhanging) do people clean the gear whilst rapping down or do people prefer to jumar up and clean? >And if you prefer cleaning on rap what's your method (particularly for overhanging stuff)?

For me it depends quite a bit on the type of placements made, and how direct the line is vs degree of overhang.

Free (clean aid) placements are easier to clean than nailed ones.
Less overhanging is easier to clean (I note you have already sussed that one!).
Abseiling a strongly diagonal line (or traverse!), is more problematic to clean.

So, if the line was clean aid, reasonably straight up, and only moderately overhanging (or less), I would prefer to clean on abseil, due many placements would flick out easily, ... sometimes they will even 'pop out' due rope tension on them while abseiling!
If it was majorly overhanging and I had back-cleaned critical pieces (ie the hardest ones to remove) in anticipation of probs cleaning at end of leading the pitch; [leapfrogged placements help! while leading it]; then I would try to get whatever I could on abseil and clean the rest on jumar. This of course assumes that the last remaining piece to clean (say), under a roof can be obtained while weighted! ... otherwise sometimes major jiggery-pokery can be involved!! Be prepared for the ensuing swing and anticipate the effect of scraping the rope on a roof-lip beforehand ...
Traverses and roofs often require leaving a piece to lower out on backline from, if cleaning while on jumar.

If you can't maintain a stable (triangle of contact?), body position when you need to funkness a piece on abseil, then it is best cleaned on jumar.

When time is not of the essence I sometimes tend to mix things up a bit to relieve monotony of routine, and the method used would simply be personal inclination at the time.
If speed/efficiency is important then having a routine can help, but then other factors also come into play; like hauling; eg do you simul-haul while abseiling, jumar with the wombat on your back while cleaning, or haul independently ... ~> & then such things as load size becomes relevant.

Regarding cleaning on abseil technique, I prefer to wrap the rope around my thigh a couple of times to lock it off which enables both hands to be used to clean recalcitrant pieces, however I generally use a bachmann/prusik backup off my legloop, so at worst case I am still covered for safety while doing this.

Having flexibility, plenty of tricks for your bag of technique/s, and confidence in applying those techniques are all factors in mastering the game / enjoyment derived from it.

>I've heard that others carry and use tent poles (retractable and light) is this right?

Sometimes on virgin routes (or if the guidebook says first ascentionists used one), I take a cheatstick. Generally I prefer not too, as I find enjoyment in overcoming the challenges/problems the rock presents while climbing it, without resorting to nailing or other jiggery pokery.


The good Dr

20-Jul-2008
6:23:33 PM

Stick clipping is very useful, particularly for those of us who have the dreaded 'short reach'. I have been on aid routes where I had to use a stick clip to reach between fixed gear placements even while high stepping in my etriers.

Some people will tell you that it is cheating to use a stick clip. It certainly is not. Just remember aid climbing is using mechanical means to allow progress (ie aid climbing is cheating all of the time) and jiggery pokery is an integral part of the experience.

Abseiling on you gri-gri allows you to take your hands off to remove gear without wrapping a rope around your leg. You can also climb a rope very efficiently with a gri-gri and there is no risk of the rope becoming detached from it as can happen with incorrectly set up jumars.

I'll chat to you about it at some stage.

>Oh and another thing
>that I learnt was... stick clipping! Wow! The reach you can get with a
>tree branch! I've heard that others carry and use tent poles (retractable
>and light) is this right?

IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote
>Sometimes on virgin routes (or if the guidebook says first ascentionists used one), I take a >cheatstick. Generally I prefer not too, as I find enjoyment in overcoming the >challenges/problems the rock presents while climbing it, without resorting to nailing or other >jiggery pokery.

Paul

20-Jul-2008
6:51:44 PM

If you are going to cheat aid climbing then this may be of use, http://www.rescuerocket.com/tresqmax.html


IdratherbeclimbingM9

21-Jul-2008
9:44:59 AM

On 20/07/2008 The good Dr wrote:
>Some people will tell you that it is cheating to use a stick clip. It
>certainly is not. Just remember aid climbing is using mechanical means
>to allow progress (ie aid climbing is cheating all of the time) and jiggery
>pokery is an integral part of the experience.

Cheatstick (imo) is a generic term otherwise you would end up with variations, like stick-clip, tentpole-clip, marlinpole-clip, etc, heh, heh, heh.

I acknowledge a cheatstick is not 'cheating' in an aid sense, and many routes go cleanly with the use of one, which imo is a highly desirable outcome.
Having said that I have found little enjoyment in using one, once the novelty of that aspect of jiggery pokery wears off. The good thing about the game is that we are free (to some extent) to make our own rules to suit our ethics, or practicalities like height/reach ...
Btw, I find using heavy duty rubber bands easier to attach required gear to said-stick for multiple use, instead of gaffer tape, particularly in cold conditions. Another helpful item can be the use of a dedicated line preclipped to said piece. This need only be light and if pre-knotted loops are in it at approx metre intervals, enables easy aiding past significant-reach blank stretches, ie where the clip is made higher than the length of your available ettrier!

Regarding jiggery pokery, I too regard it as often being an integral part of the experience of aid climbing. I find it most satisfying in a technical sense, and get particular pleasure out of finangling equalised marginal placements to achieve a reasonable bodyweight placement for upward progress.

>Abseiling on you gri-gri allows you to take your hands off to remove gear
>without wrapping a rope around your leg. You can also climb a rope very
>efficiently with a gri-gri and there is no risk of the rope becoming detached
>from it as can happen with incorrectly set up jumars.

Good point for those with grigris, though I would argue the nuances of the term
>'incorrectly set up jumars'
... ~> hard to do once a basic understanding of same has been achieved imo.
[... & yes, I am aware that clipping the base of the handle to the rope is an excellent idea on inclined jumars/traverses to prevent twist detachment].

:)


pat

21-Jul-2008
10:24:14 AM

Phil, the RC.com site on aiding is great. A question on the RA system. Do you have just two sets of ring
trees? That is do they have dual rings on each side of the tape? I am going to try making a set for
myself.


Phil Box

21-Jul-2008
4:23:15 PM

Yes, the ring trees do indeed have rings either side of the tape. They are at equal heights. This is important because you can then click your heels together like a German salute and point your toes into the wall for enhanced stability when top stepping and reaching up on overhung terrain. The setup means that you can use your lower legs as levers to enhance your reach.

I only have two sets of ring trees and have never found myself in a position where I have needed more.


Pat

21-Jul-2008
5:28:16 PM

Cheers Phil,

because they only get tested when you bounce test, do you think it would be viable to sew some trees
up myself?

gfdonc

21-Jul-2008
5:53:16 PM

On 21/07/2008 Phil Box wrote:
>The setup means that you can use your lower legs as levers to enhance your
>reach.

I'm keen to try the RA approach, because I can see the advantage in terms of stability and effort.

The disadvantage, of course, seems to be that you have increased leverage to pull outwards on your gear. This is generally not a good thing. (Queue sound effect "pop" followed by some jangling and cursing).
Your mileage (or lack of) may vary.


Phil Box

22-Jul-2008
7:47:57 AM

On 21/07/2008 Pat wrote:
>Cheers Phil,
>
>because they only get tested when you bounce test, do you think it would
>be viable to sew some trees
>up myself?

I don't see why not. They are not a safety item, that job remains with the rope.

There are 34 messages in this topic.