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Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 96
Author
Killiecrankie, Flinders Island

Doug
22/01/2012
10:02:10 PM
Great report, Wendy. Not being on Facebook, I'd love to see some more of your photos - especially of the camping and snorkelling - if you have got over your copy/paste fatigue yet.
I've only been to Flinders once, about 30 years ago. We only did some easier stuff, up to about 18 max and thought the climbing was okay but a lot of the rock seemed kind of crumbly as I recall. The climbing turned out to be a bit of a side benefit of being on the island. Then again it was pretty bloody windy while we were there. I had to have my son tethered when we went for a stroll up one of the ridges to ensure that he wasn't blown away.
The highlight of our trip was eating a Cape Barren Goose that our host had inadvertently added to the road kill tally. Also the sobering experience of visiting Wybalenna. Oh yeah, and a stroll up Strezlecki and being amazed at the damage the wild pigs had done to the vegetation along the track a little ways below the summit.
I imagine the current guide works as well as any other fictional historical document based on hearsay ... ;-)
Wendy
22/01/2012
10:31:49 PM
Dan, I believe i already did complement Gerry on his lovely interpersonal style and reiterate my thoughts on his guidebook is slightly more helpful language. Oh, maybe I did describe it as crap though ....

Still, I'm impressed, I managed to get Gerry and Muki to have a hissy fit on the one thread! Actually, I shouldn't be too impressed with myself, it's not difficult to get either to have a childish tanty.

Muki, I think we all know I climb a wee bit more than 18, and have just a small amount of climbing experience, so when I say, it's reachy, poor rock and fiddly gear, that's because that's how it is. Given I can actually climb, and have many years of dealing with routefinding, rock and gear issues, I managed to cope quite fine and quite enjoyed the routes despite these things. I realise you're a man a subtlety, so I'm sure you'll be able to appreciate the difference between whinging and realistic information about the climbing conditions.

And thanks Doug B, although I still haven't gotten any more photos up ...

shortman
22/01/2012
10:34:16 PM
On 22/01/2012 Wendy wrote:
>Dan, I believe i already did complement Gerry on his lovely interpersonal
>style and reiterate my thoughts on his guidebook is slightly more helpful
>language. Oh, maybe I did describe it as crap though ....
>
>Still, I'm impressed, I managed to get Gerry and Muki to have a hissy
>fit on the one thread! Actually, I shouldn't be too impressed with myself,
>it's not difficult to get either to have a childish tanty.
>
>Muki, I think we all know I climb a wee bit more than 18, and have just
>a small amount of climbing experience, so when I say, it's reachy, poor
>rock and fiddly gear, that's because that's how it is. Given I can actually
>climb, and have many years of dealing with routefinding, rock and gear
>issues, I managed to cope quite fine and quite enjoyed the routes despite
>these things. I realise you're a man a subtlety, so I'm sure you'll be
>able to appreciate the difference between whinging and realistic information
>about the climbing conditions.
>
>And thanks Doug B, although I still haven't gotten any more photos up

Gold Wendy!
>...
Wendy
22/01/2012
10:48:50 PM
Hey Dan, your PM box is full (probably of important Stradbroke island planning info!)

shortman
22/01/2012
10:58:20 PM
On 22/01/2012 Wendy wrote:
>Hey Dan, your PM box is full (probably of important Stradbroke island planning
>info!)

Not anymore.

muki
23/01/2012
4:01:30 AM
On 22/01/2012 Wendy wrote:
>when I say, it's reachy, poor rock and fiddly gear, that's because that's how it is.

thats how it is for you!...., others have a different experience to yours.
For example, I don't think anything you find reachy, to be a problem for me.
but lynn hill is no taller than you and she doesn't have the problems you seem to have.
As far as fiddly gear goes, that just takes more practice on your part.
and crumbly rock?.... well others seem to have a different story about that too!

but hey its easy to blame other factors like the guide book, or reachy,crumbly,fiddly etc
Fish Boy
23/01/2012
5:44:49 AM
I like the Lynn Hill logic there ^^^^!

Classic!
Wendy
23/01/2012
7:47:23 AM
I love the Lynn Hill logic too. Of course, it's not new or original, everyone likes to point out that Lynn is short. Funny how they haven't found anyone new to point out in 20 years. I shouldn't need to point out the bleedingly obvious, but I am not Lynn Hill. I can't climb like Lynn Hill. I have never claimed to be able to climb like Lynn Hill. Doug may well be the better part of 6 foot tall, but he was also able to recognise reachy for others when he saw it. Perhaps you lack this capacity for empathy?

But I was climbing on Taipan Wall last year and feeling like a bit of a grumble bum because I was just constantly being frustrated by big reaches. Then Damo tells me Lynn complained that Taipan was reachy. And Simey tells me Sylvia Fitzpatrick complained Taipan was reachy. So I'm in good company. Even short climbers who are far better than I am are able to recognise when climbs are reachy. Feel free to tell them both about bad craftsmen.

Between us, Doug, Enga and I have over 70 years climbing experience and all climb trad in the mid 20s. I don't think it's our skills that make the gear fiddly or rock poor at Flinders. You may note there are several other people who also found the rock at Flinders to be poor - I think the message is the rock is extremely varied. I did some pitches on stunning rock. But lots and lots of climbing on decidedly ordinary stuff.

mikllaw
23/01/2012
12:54:50 PM
I have to agree with everyone, a bit.
I remember some poxy rock so Wendy's probably spot on there.

The guide which has been reproduced was poor back then BUT, there are now topos. Which may not be that useful as they are based on the old route descriptions.

widewetandslippery
23/01/2012
1:43:14 PM
The poor guide thing frustrates me but at the same time stops climbing by numbers. The Bungles guide is a prime example of ambiguous information.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/01/2012
3:42:51 PM
On 23/01/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>The poor guide thing frustrates me but at the same time stops climbing
>by numbers. The Bungles guide is a prime example of ambiguous information.

~> ... and isn't it great how it maintains the adventure!
Heh, heh, heh.
robertsonja
23/01/2012
3:53:16 PM
Killiecrankie and the Furneaux Group are beautiful places and thankfully remote. It would be unrealistic to expect a coffee table book on the climbing subject.

The Guide is the guide. There is no need to ever complain about a guide book. a) don't use it or b) write your own or submit some extra info.

It is what it is - a guide.



widewetandslippery
23/01/2012
4:04:39 PM
On 23/01/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 23/01/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>>The poor guide thing frustrates me but at the same time stops climbing
>>by numbers. The Bungles guide is a prime example of ambiguous information.
>
>~> ... and isn't it great how it maintains the adventure!
>Heh, heh, heh.

Totally agree
Wendy
23/01/2012
4:10:57 PM
Piffle. If you are going to produce a commercial guidebook, it should be a reasonable guide. Meaning it's supposed to be able to provide information to guide you around the crag, up the route and off it. That's not a coffee table book, that's a guide book. If you can't be bothered doing the job properly, just lob what you throw together into the free domain in whatever manner you suits you and let other people help clarify it in the course of time. Bad guidebooks are infuriating, not because i can't follow my own nose when necessary even though a bad guide makes that annoying (Doug had concluded the guide may as well be left on the ground each day for all the use it actually was in following the route before I'd even got there), but because someone has the gall to publish and charge for such nonsense. And as well all know from many many other threads about epics, accidents and calls to 000, some large number of climbers struggle to follow a reasonable guide, let alone a crap one.
onsight
23/01/2012
4:27:35 PM
On 23/01/2012 Wendy wrote:
> Then Damo tells me Lynn complained that Taipan was reachy.

Yep, she sure did. In particular the start of Sirocco p2 was especially frustrating for her.

nmonteith
23/01/2012
4:31:28 PM
The content of a guide should at least match the effort put into the design and photography.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/01/2012
4:33:31 PM
On 23/01/2012 Wendy wrote:
>Piffle. If you are going to produce a commercial guidebook, it should
>be a reasonable guide. Meaning it's supposed to be able to provide information
>to guide you around the crag, up the route and off it. That's not a coffee
>table book, that's a guide book. If you can't be bothered doing the job
>properly, just lob what you throw together into the free domain in whatever
>manner you suits you and let other people help clarify it in the course
>of time. Bad guidebooks are infuriating, not because i can't follow my
>own nose when necessary even though a bad guide makes that annoying (Doug
>had concluded the guide may as well be left on the ground each day for
>all the use it actually was in following the route before I'd even got
>there), but because someone has the gall to publish and charge for such
>nonsense. And as well all know from many many other threads about epics,
>accidents and calls to 000, some large number of climbers struggle to follow
>a reasonable guide, let alone a crap one.

The latest hardcopy 'Bungles guide that I know of, is the insert for Rock No 20, back in 1994.
This is not exactly a produced for commercial gain type guidebook, but rather an improvement-update of sorts to the even further out of date ones that existed at the time.
I suspect it is like the Killiecrankie Guide, in that it reproduces original information with possibly corrections where known at time of production, plus the latest info available.
It certainly met a need, especially if used judiciously, but for an adventure destination certainly did not go overboard in demystifying the place.

It seems to me that you are after more than a guide, you want the total-safety hand-held experience in readable format?
Would you like a latte with that? Heh, heh, heh

The climbers that you refer to who struggle to follow reasonable guides, let alone crap ones, are in all probability likely to still do the actions that you refer to...
widewetandslippery
23/01/2012
4:34:12 PM
On 23/01/2012 onsight wrote:
>On 23/01/2012 Wendy wrote:
>> Then Damo tells me Lynn complained that Taipan was reachy.
>
>Yep, she sure did. In particular the start of Sirocco p2 was especially
>frustrating for her.

Simon you are the last person in the world I thought would call out Lynn Hiill as a whinging midget no balls

E. Wells
23/01/2012
5:31:04 PM
WHAAAAAT! Im voting you off the island.
Wendy
23/01/2012
6:17:30 PM
Rod, more piffle! The rock insert is a crappy guide, just as I would expect it to be. It's the cheap and nasty sort of guide that is expected to be cheap and nasty. It was free with Rock. Or all of about 5.95 with out it. No one's claiming anything or expecting anything much of it. The same standards don't apply to guides that are full price, high level production kind of publications. It's a waste of the bloody paper they are on to just reproduce the cheap and nasty guide stuff in them. Just stick with the cheap and nasty format. I would not have had a beef if I'd gone down with a few crappy photocopy sheets and hand drawn maps and discovered they were inadequate and inaccurate. I'd be a donkey if I didn't expect them to be.

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There are 96 messages in this topic.

 

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