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 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 41
Author
A few photos and stories from summer in the Blueys
widewetandslippery
2/03/2011
8:01:26 AM
Then why don't all 18s make you feel like puking like Amen Corner?

pmonks
2/03/2011
8:54:12 AM
On 2/03/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Then why don't all 18s make you feel like puking like Amen Corner?

Let alone Psychopath at 17!



(yes, yes, I know it's been regraded to 18 in recent guidebooks, but I still reckon it's harder than Eternity)
widewetandslippery
2/03/2011
9:38:42 AM
I agree Eternity 16, Psychopath 17, Amen Corner 18.

Butters81
2/03/2011
9:38:56 AM
On 2/03/2011 pmonks wrote:
>Let alone Psychopath at 17!
>
>(yes, yes, I know it's been regraded to 18 in recent guidebooks, but I
>still reckon it's harder than Eternity)

Totally agree with you!
One Day Hero
2/03/2011
10:08:54 AM
On 2/03/2011 davidn wrote:
>
>Given the lack of protection and height are explained in the description
>of the climb, I still don't see a good reason to grade using exposure,
>pro and technical difficulty. The more subjective factors you add in (difficulty
>and exposure), the greater variance in grades you're going to create based
>on individual perception. And pro doesn't make a climb hard, it makes
>it more/less dangerous. Further, grading on all these factors still seems
>to me to be against the Ewbank theory.

The problem is that no-one has ever defined clearly "what makes a gr13 crux". Ewbank came up with a whole lot of spray, but never got down to the nitty-gritty.

Dave, why don't you put together your descriptive list of possible moves at a few grades, I think its a great idea which could really take off. Maybe just start with, say, 13, 16, 20 and 23........that should get the ball rolling a bit.

ajfclark
2/03/2011
10:09:49 AM
On 2/03/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>Dave, why don't you put together your descriptive list of possible moves at a few grades, I think its a great idea which could really take off. Maybe just start with, say, 13, 16, 20 and 23........that should get the ball rolling a bit.

There's a thread about that somewhere isn't there?
One Day Hero
2/03/2011
10:11:27 AM
On 2/03/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I agree Eternity 16, Psychopath 17, Amen Corner 18.

I'd much rather solo Psychopath than Eternity.

I'd rather not solo Amen Corner.

evanbb
2/03/2011
10:18:20 AM
On 2/03/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>Dave, why don't you put together your descriptive list of possible moves
>at a few grades, I think its a great idea which could really take off.
>Maybe just start with, say, 13, 16, 20 and 23........that should get the
>ball rolling a bit.

I'll start. The average grade 13 move is the first one off the deck of The Phantom.

And classic grade 11 is the first 3m of Prelude.


And I'm not actually being very facetious. I reckon there's been some dreadful grade creep over time and that the old routes are pretty close to what the grades should be.
citationx
2/03/2011
10:23:21 AM
On 2/03/2011 Butters81 wrote:
>On 2/03/2011 pmonks wrote:
>>Let alone Psychopath at 17!
>>
>>(yes, yes, I know it's been regraded to 18 in recent guidebooks, but
>I
>>still reckon it's harder than Eternity)
>
>Totally agree with you!

That's about the style (or your lack thereof). I find it substantially easier to jam my way up Psycopath shoving hexes and cams in than screwing around the top of eternity on tiny crimps and cracks that slope the wrong way. Pyschopath is still easier than eternity to me!
One Day Hero
2/03/2011
10:25:45 AM
On 2/03/2011 davidn wrote:
>
>I'm busy training for Cave Crack. I can do a whole chin-up now. Reckon
>I'm ready??

Um, Cave Route? You don't need to do chin-ups on that thing.

How about offering suggestions for your definitive "routes at the grade" then? Not a bad idea from that ex-climber guy.

nmonteith
2/03/2011
10:48:59 AM
You can't compare an 8m overhung pocketed wall to a 50m corner crack.

pmonks
2/03/2011
11:03:04 AM
On 2/03/2011 citationx wrote:
>That's about the style (or your lack thereof).

Style (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with it.

> I find it substantially
>easier to jam my way up Psycopath shoving hexes and cams in than screwing
>around the top of eternity on tiny crimps and cracks that slope the wrong
>way.

It could be argued that you lack style for being unable to pull on tiny crimps or cracks that slope the wrong way!
widewetandslippery
2/03/2011
11:18:21 AM
On 2/03/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>You can't compare an 8m overhung pocketed wall to a 50m corner crack.

Poets compare the taste of pussy and pomegranites! (maybe I've never had a good pomegranite?).

An 8m 18 should leave the average climber, for who 18 is hard because 18 is harder than 17 and all 17s are hard, feeling wrecked.

ambyeok
2/03/2011
11:56:59 AM
On 2/03/2011 davidn wrote:
> E.g. red rocks - one of the climbs got upgraded by *6* grades.
> That ain't helpful to Joe bumbly.

Screw Joe bumbly. Needs to learn to downclimb at some stage.

ajfclark
2/03/2011
12:19:36 PM
On 2/03/2011 ambyeok wrote:
>Screw Joe bumbly. Needs to learn to downclimb fall on his gear at some stage.

FTFY ;-)

dave h.
2/03/2011
7:21:41 PM
On 2/03/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:

>
>An 8m 18 should leave the average climber, for who 18 is hard because
>18 is harder than 17 and all 17s are hard, feeling wrecked.

If that's the case then Iron Mandible at Frog is the truest 18 I've ever climbed. I felt like I was about to puke after seconding it.

One of the more perceptive (in my opinion) comments on grading I've heard is that a higher grade just means that a smaller percentage of climbers can climb a route. Definitely a more realistic approach than saying that someone who can climb 19 should be able to climb every 18.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
2/03/2011
9:16:59 PM
On 2/03/2011 evanbb wrote:
>I reckon there's been some dreadful grade creep over time and that the old routes are pretty close to what the grades should be.

Noblesse Oblige again!
Originally graded 11 (a true grading for it in my opinion), and now graded 13.
wtf?

I find this whole topic amusing from the point of view that a boulderer is questioning historical trad grades!
wtf2??
kieranl
3/03/2011
1:06:37 PM
On 3/03/2011 davidn wrote:
>While I understand older climbers' frustration with grade creep, I also
>don't think it's the end of the world.
True. The end of the world will probably feature the sun growing extremely large and red and burning the Earth to cinders. This is unlikely to resemble grade creep.

ajfclark
3/03/2011
1:52:06 PM
So his dad is his granddad and if he had a brother that'd be his uncle?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
4/03/2011
6:53:54 PM
On 2/03/2011 davidn wrote:
>The alternative is true as well, however. You climb NO and think 'oh,
>grade 13 is this hard' and then jump on another, far shorter grade 13 and
>wonder why it feels quite a bit harder. Sandbag either way.

Length comes into it, but not necessarily in the way you may be thinking. See my point lower* in this post...
>
>This also probably explains why the grade of Noblesse has fluctuated a
>bit.
>
>Given the lack of protection and height are explained in the description
>of the climb, I still don't see a good reason to grade using exposure,
>pro and technical difficulty. The more subjective factors you add in (difficulty
>and exposure), the greater variance in grades you're going to create based
>on individual perception. And pro doesn't make a climb hard, it makes
>it more/less dangerous. Further, grading on all these factors still seems
>to me to be against the Ewbank theory.

*I think you are viewing 'exposure' from a simplistic (boulderers?), perspective, ie from a purely technical angle?
Instead, exposure in the Ewbank context (as I understand it), is not simply a matter of amount of air beneath the climbers feet, but includes the relative exposure the climber feels, due to many other considerations like objective danger (loose blocks etc), spaced (inadequate amount or quality) pro, poor landings, etc.

The whole climbing game is subjective due to the number of participants, and there will always be grading variance accordingly; however I think you will find a surprising amount of concensus, not only within individual grading systems, but also in comparing them worldwide.



& on 03/03/2011 wrote;
>>I find this whole topic amusing from the point of view that a boulderer
>is questioning route grades of any type, be they trad, sport or... wait, i'm sure he doesn't care about aid grades! ... since his focus/experience is primarily from the low boulderers viewpoint!
>wtf2??

Fixed that for you again.
Heh, heh, heh.

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 41
There are 41 messages in this topic.

 

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