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Werribee Gorge Nobs


bluemeanie

3-Aug-2006
5:17:39 PM

On 3/08/2006 Richard wrote:
>So they can just get aonther one, .. time may tell if such users have
>the time to waste creating bogus accounts...Or prehaps their are other
>ways to identify genuine users I have not thought of...

In the past I have seen the following work effectively in removing astroturfing and anonymous trolls. Every time some makes a post record the IP address (probably already done) and maybe the same with logins. Then make it possible to see which other posts where made from this IP address / which other users have posted logged in from this address. So if someone is astroturfing or trolling they have to do it from a different address than the one they usually post from otherwise it becomes easy to correlate the troll account with the "real" account. No privacy information is leaked (except perhaps who live in the same house) if you never actually expose the IP address. Trolls either have to go public or give up.

This does not stop abusive or infantile behaviour and unfortunately there will always be those who feel the need to abuse others. In this case then a way to combat this is to let the "community" rate each other. Those who have higher status have more weight in rating others. Then if you don't want to see posts by those who are unable to contribute anything positive without being abusive you just set your own filter level high enough.

Both systems can be hijacked but it is better than having to read the posts that sometimes appear here.

uwhp510

3-Aug-2006
7:16:42 PM

I think you run in to trouble with any but the most lenient of censorship policies because most people struggle to effectively distinguish between things that are actually offensive and things they just don't agree with. Witness the trad climbing vs. poof... I mean sport climbing debates (get it.... don't ban me by the way it was a joke).

I say that for anyone who is mortally offended by anything on here, just buck up and pack some cotton wool around your glass ego if you can't hack a bit of critisism via the internet.

At least controversy is interesting.

AntiPrincess

3-Aug-2006
7:31:10 PM

Just a thought about groups who are top-roping. Sometimes people complain that they can't do a route
because a group had a top-rope on it all afternoon, without bothering to let the group's organiser know that
they would like to lead the route. I split my climbing time roughly equally between helping others learn to
climb and doing my own climbing, and I appreciate the difficulties of crowded crags from both sides. If I'm
involved in setting up top ropes for a group, I always let other climbers nearby know they can lead the
routes if they want to. (It's not exactly hard to pull a rope down, leaving the anchor in place, then put it
back up later). I think it's only fair to complain if you requested (politely) to lead the route and were
refused.


neb

3-Aug-2006
10:35:28 PM

Glad I’m not alone on this issue,

Simon I don’t think this is a matter to joke about. If I took my dog to araps I’m sure you would be the first in line, scissors in hand!

Why should Werribee be any different??

simey

3-Aug-2006
11:54:36 PM

On 3/08/2006 neb wrote:
>Simon I don’t think this is a matter to joke about. If I took my dog to araps I’m sure you would be the first in line, scissors in hand!

There have been a few occasions where I have seen dogs at Arapiles and my response has been measured according to the situation. I certainly don't get hung up on someone making a minor indiscretion by bringing in a well-behaved dog into Araps for a few hours.

If the dog was running around, barking like mad and chasing wildlife, then I would say something to the owner. Likewise, if the owner made a habit of bringing their dog into the park, I would consider that inappropriate as well.

However I think the owner of the dog and the other members of RMIT have been more than reasonable in responding to the excessive criticism from yourself and others on this subject.

midnight

4-Aug-2006
12:57:37 AM

f---, I forgot how much I loved people bitching in chockstone. Haven't been able to check out chockstone in a while. My love from Balakot and Manshera. Anyone up for some kick ass bouldering in devasted pakistan give me a holla.

simey

4-Aug-2006
9:20:52 AM

On 4/08/2006 midnight wrote:
>f---, I forgot how much I loved people bitching in chockstone.

You're right. There is nothing more boring than reading streams of sickly praise. If it wasn't for the bitching it would be pretty dull.

drdeviousii

4-Aug-2006
9:24:55 AM

but Simey, your Grampians & Arapilies guidebooks are just the best guidebooks ever made. There are soooo many people from all over the world who rave about how these guidebooks are the best guides they've seen anywhere in the world. The climbing community is so much better off with your excellent guides.

jonorock

4-Aug-2006
9:47:34 AM

If you want to get some idea of what real bitching, slander and offensive posts are on web forums have a look at some posts on the Canberra Climbers forum (and forums from the US. Then note how often the Canberra website is now used (is: never). Its great to have a stong debate but it should never degenerate into a slanging match and name calling. People don't have time except public servants who never do any work at all and just read forums all day. Ha ha.

Jono.

simey

4-Aug-2006
9:51:48 AM

On 4/08/2006 drdeviousii wrote:
>but Simey, your Grampians & Arapilies guidebooks are just the best guidebooks ever made. There are soooo many people from all over the world who rave about how these guidebooks are the best guides they've seen anywhere in the world. The climbing community is so much better off with your excellent guides.

You would be better off directing that sort of nonsense to Rock magazine. They love printing letters telling readers how great their magazine is.


rodw

4-Aug-2006
10:42:18 AM

On 4/08/2006 jonorock wrote:
>If you want to get some idea of what real bitching, slander and offensive
>posts are on web forums have a look at some posts on the Canberra Climbers
>forum (and forums from the US. Then note how often the Canberra website
>is now used (is: never).
>Jono.

Wow this is a first, Crag X forum isn't being used as the example of an Australian trashy climbing forum....the boys are slipping....tis a sad day.

I think you'll find Canberra forum is quiet because its small, with only 117 registered users and by using chockstone stats as an example, which list only 22% only being major posters......thats only 25 ppl who will post, who probably see each other every weekend at the crag anyway. I think ppl are a bit to sensitive about being told off in forums, toughen up, dont read it if its pisses ya off....personal censorship is a lot better than the big brother kind...and makes for a much more enjoyable forum in the end.

jonorock

4-Aug-2006
11:25:48 AM

Hey Rod,
The Canberra website was very active for a while and could have been a great way of communicating at a local level. But people don't waste their time anymore because of the rubbish/slagging off that was continually being posted. There is the occasional worthwhile piece of info/ discussion. Canberra climbers have used "personal censorship" very effectively. I use Chockstone now and it is great and have a look at cragx every now and again.
Jono.


Richard

4-Aug-2006
1:21:52 PM

On 4/08/2006 rodw wrote:
>I think
>ppl are a bit to sensitive about being told off in forums, toughen up,
>dont read it if its pisses ya off....personal censorship is a lot better
>than the big brother kind...and makes for a much more enjoyable forum in
>the end.

I think the point has been missed a bit. I was not suggesting censorship - I was just suggesting that people should own-up to the comments they make and post them under their real name and not hide behind anonomus accounts etc. remember the the 'snow flurries' issue? An attack on someone who's cotributed a lot of positve things from an anomous person. I think if someone has genuine concerns, they should be prepared to put their name to it. This is not crime watch - we're not dealing with issues so large we should need anonymity.

Cheers

[ps. i am mainly refering to notoriuos anonymous posts in other threads, not so much in this topic..]

NEVERCLIMBED32

4-Aug-2006
2:00:57 PM

On 3/08/2006 simey wrote:

>There have been a few occasions where I have seen dogs at Arapiles and
>my response has been measured according to the situation. I certainly don't
>get hung up on someone making a minor indiscretion by bringing in a well-behaved
>dog into Araps for a few hours.
>
>If the dog was running around, barking like mad and chasing wildlife,
>then I would say something to the owner. Likewise, if the owner made a
>habit of bringing their dog into the park, I would consider that inappropriate
>as well.
>
>However I think the owner of the dog and the other members of RMIT have
>been more than reasonable in responding to the excessive criticism from
>yourself and others on this subject.
>

Simon
While I totally agree with your first couple of points.
I fail to see how you can consider it reasonable for someone to just say sorry after they have admitted deliberatly setting out to breach Parks rules.
You to would be aware of instances where access of climbing sites to the many has been denied due to actions of the few.


JamesMc

4-Aug-2006
5:06:49 PM

Wow, this thread has reminded me of how intolerant some climbers can be.

It also got me thinking about National Park rules.

Here are some that I may or may not have broken in the past:
Sleeping in a hut when it was not an emergency
Placing bolts
Accidentally damaging vegetation
Walking other than on a track
Camping other than in an area set aside for camping
Climbing at Wilsons Prom when it was prohibited
Bushwalking at Wilsons Prom after dark
Picking and eating native fruit

There's probably more that I don't even know about

Am I the only criminal here?

James Mc

simey

4-Aug-2006
6:32:45 PM

Gee James, your list of sins shocks me... but it is a good thing you have come to Chockstone for forgiveness.

Did I say forgiveness, oh sorry, this is Chockstone... for your crimes against humanity... I sentence you to 20 years hard labour.


JamesMc

4-Aug-2006
9:58:09 PM

Simey,
At least I've never been sprung climbing an Apostle.

James Mc


neb

4-Aug-2006
10:27:51 PM

I do have genuine concerns, and I’m not posting anonymously...

Why would you own up to shit like that, such blatant disregard for our bush and the supposed regulations that protect it.

And before I cop it for being a tree hugging hippy, I work in the outdoors so your recking my occupation, you could say its in my interest to preserve what little bush we have left.

simey

5-Aug-2006
12:05:18 AM

On 4/08/2006 JamesMc wrote:
>Simey,
>At least I've never been sprung climbing an Apostle.

I'm proud of that moment.

Hey, that reminds me, didn't Pritchard, Muir and co. climb the same Apostle with Krondorff the Dog?

We better call in the United Nations to deal with that one.


JamesMc

5-Aug-2006
5:48:13 PM

Neb,
The point is that there are a lot of State / National Park rules that are either trivial or stupid. Don't take them too seriously. The one about sleeping in huts is actually destructive. Most crags in Victoria are in National Parks. Most cannot be reached by a walking track. You can't really walk off a track without damaging vegetation. If you haven't damaged vegetation, then you really need to get out more.

As for the dog. I can't believe it's that big a deal PROVIDED the dog was under control and did not attack the local wildlife. I commonly see people walking their dogs in the Dandenong Ranges NP up the hill from my place. Parks are obviously obviously aware of this as they post warnings to dog owners when they lay fox baits. If they wanted to be anal about enforcing a dog exclusion, then I'm sure they would.

If you have ever broken a hold, walked off a track, drank a glass of wine while camping, slept in a hut instead of camping to protect the environment, placed a bolt, allowed your commercial groups to step on a plant, then you have broken the law. If this is the case, then let he who is perfect cast the first stone.

I wasn't accusing you of posting anonymously, but come to think of it, your user profile says your full name is Ben, which is not very specific. Your email address is just an email address, not your name.

James Mc

PS, I didn’t own up to anything.

There are 78 messages in this topic.